battery issues/problems updated see below

sluggo · Post by **sluggo** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:14 am

well here is my up date. the gear heads (of which I am not) around the dock have always told me, 'fix the simplest thing first'. I took out both starting batteries, 1 relatively new, 2-3 yrs old from Napa, and the other an Interstate that must be 5-6 yrs old, time flies!!!
I have a hard time finding 29's in stock around here, so I went with 27's, and Wal mart's have been good to me, but I went back to Napa because I thought the one may still have some warranty. Low and behold it did, they swapped it out and gave me a free one!! I did not question it. but that Napa only had 1 27 dual purpose marine, so I went across town to the other Napa and got me another, around $90.
So I throw those in, go to fire things up the starboard engine gives me nothing!!! & its hot!! Maybe the wire is lose, no it seems tight, and all of sudden stuff starts turning on!! What's going on?? Long and short, the connector end of the batter wire, has 2 screws that clamp the wire tight, one was lose, and I think this may have been the cause of most of my problems although not all!! So fix the simplest thing first, make sure the wires are okay, before changing out batteries/alternators etc!!
I don't feel bad about this, one battery was under warranty, the other was at the end of it's life so all is well there.
and thank you to you guys for your thoughts!!!

ready123 · Post by **ready123** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:57 am

RU saying that the battery connector is screw clamped to the wire ends

sluggo · Post by **sluggo** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:16 pm

ready123 wrote:RU saying that the battery connector is screw clamped to the wire ends

yes I am, and one of those screws was loose. I am sure I should use a cramped/pre made wire for this, but this is what I have for now.

ready123 · Post by **ready123** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:33 pm

That end connector is using a nut/bolt connected type of battery post or tapered clamp a la auto?
If the latter you are certainly adding up your weak points for a marine application.

sluggo · Post by **sluggo** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:45 pm

ready123 wrote:That end connector is using a nut/bolt connected type of battery post or tapered clamp a la auto?
If the latter you are certainly adding up your weak points for a marine application.

probably so, do you have a link for a better solution?? I would love to see something and am willing to try.

We do not have a boat supply store for this kind of boat within 150 miles. I don;t know what to look for on the internet.

ready123 · Post by **ready123** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:59 pm

What is the connection style of the battery..... stud bolt and/or tapered post?
http://www.remybattery.com/Departments/ ... inals.aspx

sluggo · Post by **sluggo** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:47 pm

I am not sure, it has a post on it, I believe is tapered, but only slightly, it has post sticking up that has a wing nut/nut that spins on them. I using one from your link called 'universal connectors'. I think I would like to buy pre made wires with connectors on them.

ready123 · Post by **ready123** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:53 pm

sluggo wrote:I am not sure, it has a post on it, I believe is tapered, but only slightly, it has post sticking up that has a wing nut/nut that spins on them. I using one from your link called 'universal connectors'. I think I would like to buy pre made wires with connectors on them.

The one you should use is the post with the wing nut but change the wing nut to a plain nut that you tighten with a wrench.
You should have two different sized threaded posts on the positive and neg sides of the battery... get the round connectors to suit those dias... copper tube lugs.

RWS · Post by **RWS** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:09 pm

ready123 wrote:
sluggo wrote:... change the wing nut to a plain nut that you tighten with a wrench.

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Use a lock nut (nylon lock)

RWS

sluggo · Post by **sluggo** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:22 pm

ready123 wrote:
sluggo wrote:I am not sure, it has a post on it, I believe is tapered, but only slightly, it has post sticking up that has a wing nut/nut that spins on them. I using one from your link called 'universal connectors'. I think I would like to buy pre made wires with connectors on them.
The one you should use is the post with the wing nut but change the wing nut to a plain nut that you tighten with a wrench.
You should have two different sized threaded posts on the positive and neg sides of the battery... get the round connectors to suit those dias... copper tube lugs.

Mike thanks, my question though is this,
it appears to me the universal type connector would have more surface area and therefore it give me a better connection and transfer more power/current to my starter. Thoughts??

ready123 · Post by **ready123** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:44 pm

It might look that way at first glance... but consider this: what if the tapers are not identical?
Do you not think the nut on a flat flange (as I suggest) vs the single bolt closing these non matching tapers might not be better.
One does not need extra surface area to transmit the Voltage/Current one needs a better connection-- no air gap.
Think of your car's terminals which are tapered, how often are they corroded. When that happens take it apart and look inside the taper, any buildup there?

sluggo · Post by **sluggo** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:42 am

ready123 wrote:It might look that way at first glance... but consider this: what if the tapers are not identical?
Do you not think the nut on a flat flange (as I suggest) vs the single bolt closing these non matching tapers might not be better.
One does not need extra surface area to transmit the Voltage/Current one needs a better connection-- no air gap.
Think of your car's terminals which are tapered, how often are they corroded. When that happens take it apart and look inside the taper, any buildup there?

thanks for the info!! will do, but maybe not today!!

Big D · Post by **Big D** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:31 pm

I can't agree with the nylock nut. They are not meant to handle a connection that could potentially get hot, loosen off and create a worse connection, more heat etc. The propper fastener is a nut with a built-in spur washer or use a regular nut with separate spur washer. This will lock the nut and prevent it from backing off. Don't use a regular lock washer (split washer), it tends to cut into the lug/connector.

RWS · Post by **RWS** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:51 pm

Big D wrote:I can't agree with the nylock nut. They are not meant to handle a connection that could potentially get hot, loosen off and create a worse connection, more heat etc. The propper fastener is a nut with a built-in spur washer or use a regular nut with separate spur washer. This will lock the nut and prevent it from backing off. Don't use a regular lock washer (split washer), it tends to cut into the lug/connector.

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This was discussed on BoaterEd, my other addictive boating haunt.

Take a look (copied from the West Marine Advisor)

Wing Nut Battery Terminals

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Until recently, most marine starting and deep cycle batteries (including our batteries made by East Penn Manufacturing) have included wing nut battery terminals. If you own batteries with wing nuts, we advise you to replace them with nylock hex nuts. Here's why.

In 2006 the ABYC (American Boat and Yacht Council) boating safety standards organization published new recommended practices for the selection, location, installation, and wiring of storage batteries, including this requirement:

E-10.8.3: Battery cables and other conductors size 6 AWG and larger shall not be connected to the battery with wing nuts.

They made this change because wing nuts have the possibility of working loose due to the vibration of stiff battery cables while a boat is in operation. Loose cables create resistance and heat, with potential for overheated wires and possible fire.

For outboard engine applications we recommend replacing wing nuts with nylock nuts or hex nuts and lock washers that are tightened to at least 10 foot pounds of torque. For inboard engine applications you should use clamp-on battery terminals connected to the correct gauge of battery cable. Just in case you need to remove or disconnect your battery, carry a West Marine compact battery terminal wrench, model 9523663. It clips onto the battery box.
==============================
RWS

Big D · Post by **Big D** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:08 pm

I'll stick with the spured washer nut for three reasons: 1) I've seen too many nylocks fail on batteries, 2) where I'm from, most people disconnect thier batteries for the winter. Try installing and removing a nylock several times; it will loose its ability to hold, and you know nobody ever replaces them with new ones! 3) I have yet to see a battery manufacturer use nylocks, (actually not recommended by one of the battery manufacturers I attended a seminar at) though most I've seen do use spured washer nuts.