Phase Separation

rossjo · Post by **rossjo** » Wed May 04, 2011 7:59 pm

Finished my fuel polishing system last week and ran it all weekend. The gas boats runs great now - and here is an example of the "fuel" in my tanks.

Video: http://RNR-Marine.com/Mack-Attack/MOV01 ... er-Gas.MP4

The fluid at the top is gasoline, which is now low octane, so it needs octane booster. Octane booster with MMT (I use ValvTect Octane Boost) is the trick. It will raise it 20 points (+2 full Octane number, so 89 goes to 91 for example).

The bottom fluid is a mix of Ethanol bonded with water (about 50/50), which sinks. Ethanol initially separates and floats to the top, where it combines with moisture in the air and gets heavier and eventually sinks when it reaches a high enough moisture absorption. This will NOT burn.

My fuel polisher sucks off the bottom of the tank, through a T-Valve where I run the initial fuel into a glass 5-gallon carboy until I see a difference in color.

Then I turn the T and run the fuel through Parker Racor Fuel Filters (with clear plastic drain bowls) - 1st a 10-micron and then a 2nd setup with 2-micron, which Parker Racor claims will pull all of the Ethanol/Water mix out of my fuel.

Finally, the fuel is sucked through the 35gph Mr. Gasket pump and goes back into the tank through he fuel fill.

All mounted on a rolling wooden cart (no sparks) and powered by a long cord through an Ancor Marine-grade, spark-proof breaker switch to a 12VDC battery.

I ran my fuel through this all weekend and the results were great.

plansea · Post by **plansea** » Thu May 05, 2011 11:00 am

You Da Man Ross ! Which boat did you do ? Larry

Stripermann2 · Post by **Stripermann2** » Thu May 05, 2011 12:00 pm

May have to try some of the ValvTec octane booster.

Along with the thought that as long as I burn what fuel I have, as often as I can, I can help eliminate some of the issues associated with the Ethonal.

Good post Ross!

rossjo · Post by **rossjo** » Thu May 05, 2011 2:52 pm

Thanks for the help last week Larry - it finally started pulling stuff out after you left. I did both boats, but haven't taken the Mack Attack out yet. The Sea Pro runs like a champ - 65mph again! That old ethanol took about 10% of my power, so my 200 ran like a 180. Not fun.

Jamie et al,
Ethanol will phase separate after 3 weeks if sitting, so its eventually going ot build up a layer of Ethanol/Water (about 50/50) in the bottom of your tank and get you.

It took several years to build up enough to get my boats, but it got 2 this Spring.

Now - I can run the fuel through my polisher and clean it up.

risctaker · Post by **risctaker** » Thu May 05, 2011 4:15 pm

Ross, I need to do this to several hundred gallons of phase-separated fuel aboard "Basket Case". What was your approx cost in assembling all the components for your "polisher" and...excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is a "glass carboy"?? Also how did you manage to install the "T" at the bottom of the tanks without flooding your bilge with gas? Thanks.

Big D · Post by **Big D** » Thu May 05, 2011 8:43 pm

Great vid Ross, thanks. Didn't think it separated that quick, great visual.

rossjo · Post by **rossjo** » Thu May 05, 2011 10:32 pm

I have about $200 wholesale, $350-$400 retail in my setup ... probably not economical, but I would loan it to you if you were local. I own 4 gas boats and 2 classic ars, so it will pay off as long as we have ethanol (and not a bad idea anyway).

Big D - It has been proven that ethanol will begin to phase separate in 3 weeks. Sooner in boats, where the fuel is vented to open air (humid in this case).

Modern automobiles separate (the ethanol goes to the top) if left alone for 3 weeks, but quickly mix back together when agitated, since their closed systems does NOT allow for the entrance of humid air, which would unite with the Ethanol molecules and the settle to the bottom of the tank.

Oh yes - I have balloons (will convert to condoms with Zip Ties, since the balloons don't hold up) on all my vents now. I know king Paul enjoyed that visual image ...

Big D · Post by **Big D** » Thu May 05, 2011 11:19 pm

Ross, I knew about the 3 weeks, I meant when you were shaking it in the jar, didn't take long at all. A good example of what happens in your tanks in rough seas and how quickly it separates again after things calm down. Just thinking of how that may help in runnability diagnostics. Thanks.

rossjo · Post by **rossjo** » Fri May 06, 2011 8:15 am

Yes, the water/ethanol is very heavy and will settle down quickly.

In rough seas, you COULD pick up a bit of this water/ethanol mix in your fuel line as it normally lies on the bottom of your tank and doesn't get sucked in (unless you pickup is right on the bottom, which most aren't).

To do a proper cleanup, one would really need to open the tank and stick a wand down into the lowest point and suck that liquid (and gunk) up. I didn't do that, but did shake the boast violently from time to time, as well as raising and lowering the trailer tongue periodically to many levels.

Some thoughts are that you can't save the old gas, but the MMT Octane Boosters seem to work. Whatever you do, don;t use Octane Boosters using alcohol (many do). This will only make your problem worse, and they don;t increase octane more then 0.1 or 0.2 - not even noticeable.

prowlersfish · Post by **prowlersfish** » Fri May 06, 2011 9:38 am

If the the gas has not turned to varnish , then you may be ok it has its done.

risctaker · Post by **risctaker** » Fri May 06, 2011 9:49 am

What is a "5-Gallon Carboy" ?

plansea · Post by **plansea** » Fri May 06, 2011 10:13 am

I am not sure where Ross got the name carboy but its a glass (now Plastic) jug that we normally see inverted on an office type water cooler. I am sure most any type vessel would work, but these bottles are clear.Larry

rossjo · Post by **rossjo** » Fri May 06, 2011 10:17 am

risctaker wrote:What is a "5-Gallon Carboy" ?

A carboy is a large glass or plastic jug - term comes from beer making I suppose (I used to make some good ales) ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carboy

SOBFROGG · Post by **SOBFROGG** » Fri May 06, 2011 10:28 am

Thanks for the info...

OH for the Carboy. If you can find a home brew store they sell glass carboys.
We have many store in the Chicgao area

rossjo · Post by **rossjo** » Fri May 06, 2011 2:57 pm

Added photo for those who can't play MP4 video.