Another timing question?

TurboTim · Post by **TurboTim** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:04 am

So I was out on the boat and I just rebuilt one motor and got it running a few weeks ago. Well now I finally got it in the water today and was going to do a final timing check and set. Well I could never get the mark. So I did it right at some point but just need all the "correct answers" to check my final timing.
1) What cylinder is number 1?
2) What pointer should I use for the port and starboard motors?
3) What should I set timing to.
My boat is an 1981 Tri Cabin and the motor is a 360

g36 · Post by **g36** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:56 am

i have a 318 but basically the same

1) firing order
http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotiv ... rder_1.jpg

2)i have an inspection port at the flywheel that has a little rubber cover that rotates out of the way. there is a pointer there that can be used for timing my base timing is 5degrees btdc. set my timing light on 5 and adjust to match. might need to rotate the engine by hand until you can see the mark so you could put some paint etc. on it to make it easier to see. then fire it up. the 360 spec might be different so line it up with what yours is supposed to be. also there are timing indicators in the normal postion up front. mine has a hole in the timing tab that is a 5. i have just used that to verify that the other was the same. you should verify your total advance to make sure your distributor is advancing as it should. there is more to it than just base timing to having the engine running properly.
3) not sure but i found somewhere it was 8 btdc need to verify that

4) good luck

TurboTim · Post by **TurboTim** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:15 am

So are the flywheels diffrent starboard to port? What does this mark look like? Is it a notch?

Can I use the front timing marks? If so what side is what?

Thanks a bunch for covering this. I tried to seach last night but could get no straight answers. I somewhere found that #1 was on starboard side and thats what messed me up.

g36 · Post by **g36** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:34 pm

no the flywheels arent different
go to this link and scroll down to the pics. i had issues with my starter ring but the pics show the timing arrow and there will also be marks on the flywheel. on pic 1 and 3 you can see the numbers on the flywheel if you look closely, when you time the engine you can use these. they are the same on both engines. if you have a adjustable timing light you would set it to the base timing number(say 8btdc if that is what your number should be) and then start the engine and move the distributor so that the 0 will be at the end of the arrow. the front marks will (or should) replicate this also. if you use the front marks it will be the same process. there will be some notch to line up with the timing tab. it wont really matter which side is what because you will need to line it yo 0 if the timing light is adjusted to 8. after it is set you can rev the engine and observe which way the mark is moving and that will show which way it is advancing, also if the distributor fails to advance fully you will not get the performance out of your engine. what distributors are you using. are you using the original chryslers or something else? if original i would check very closely the spring tension by moving the rotor by hand and see if it is snappnig back when you let go. if not this need so be corrected or you will defineately have timing issues

http://www.trojanboats.net/wforum/viewt ... highlight=

TurboTim · Post by **TurboTim** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:47 pm

I think I am more confused or just need to know more info. So if the flywheels have the same markings and are the same. One motor would be 8 BTDC and the motor that spins backwords would be 8 ATDC or are the bellhousing diffrent? I dont think I am going to time it by the flywheel anyways but just wondering.
I would like to time it on the front mark but confused as what you said. I have to use one of the timing pointers in front. Dont know how I could use both? Expain?
What mark should I use for the port motor to mark TDC? The cast aluminum one or the stamped steel one? Same question for starboard motor?

Stripermann2 · Post by **Stripermann2** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:58 pm

I'll try to help.

There are two timing methods. One timing light is simply a strobe light, which fires from the inductive pick-up of the number 1 ignition wire.

To use this type, you have to aim the light at the marks stamped on a balancer or aim to the marks stamped on a pointer on the timing cover, say, 8 degrees, which is stamped in hash marks, usually 2 degrees apart, from BTDC or ATDC.

The other timing light is also inductive but adjustable, it will have a knob which turns or buttons, to tune in up or down timing marks. This type you turn to say, 8 degrees, then you point at the TDC mark (0) or adjust the distributor until until the mark on the flywheel, usually a thin line, lines up to the pointer. Now you're set at 8.

You are correct...on a reverse rotation engine, if you were to line up marks and both engines being the same, with the same pointers and balancer marks, you could be looking at a After Top Dead Center mark. However, by using an adjustable timing light, it would line up properly. Top Dead Center, is TDC no matter which way the engine turns. Your only concern is after or before.

Most likely the engine would run pretty horrible...IF you could get it to time at 8 degrees AFTER top dead center (timing retarded) and keep it idling, enough to do so.

Does this help?

captainmaniac · Post by **captainmaniac** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:11 pm

On my '79 with Chrylser 360s, the engine manual says timing should be set to 2.5deg BTDC at idle. In my service manual, it says 5deg.... I use 2.5 on mine.

Since the engines are counter-rotating, on one engine the right mark is on one side of the TDC mark, on the other engine it is on the opposite side. You should be able to tell which way your flywheel is rotating its easy enough to figure out what side is 'before' and what side is 'after'.

I have set timing from both the pulley and the bell housing/flywheel end. If you do it from the flywheel side, you eliminate any errors due to misinstalled or misalinged pulleys. But if you do it based on the pulley and it sounds and runs good, you are probably okay.

"Number 1 cylinder is the front cylinder on the left side of the engine when viewed from the rear, looking towards the water pump", according to the books.

TurboTim · Post by **TurboTim** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:30 pm

LOL. I understand how a timing light works I just need to know what side I use for what motor. There is 2 sets of timing marks on my motor. One mark that is cast into the front cover. What is the other one that is added on used for? There would have to be other marks on the balancer to use that but I do see how it works now. Thanks.

TurboTim · Post by **TurboTim** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:35 pm

So I just thought of something. I can use the other timing mark on the opposite side if I just set the motor at TDC and make a mark on the other side. WIN!

g36 · Post by **g36** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:22 am

sorry to be confusing turbotim
you can time the engine from which ever place you want but i guess i find it way easier at the flywheel. much easier to see and wont have to wonder was that before or after? to each his own.
are you using a strobe or advance timing light?

anyway what distributors are you using?

larryeddington · Post by **larryeddington** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:27 am

Having just assembled two 1975 and later 318s I can absolutely tell you that timing marks are both on the flywheel and the harmonic balancer. The indicator scale is on a small part that is held in place by the two bottom circulation water pump bolts. Some hack "mechanics" do not put these back on, I guess as duplicative as there are marks on the flywheel. I prefer having both available, (Chrysler made it that way) and am used to the balance one as that is what is used on autos.

You cannot install the flywheel or harmonic balancer wrong. The balancer is keyed on and the flywheel bolt pattern is irregular and will only match up one way and both are connected by a very sturdy crankshaft, so both always will be the same. It is possible to have the cam not aligned properly to the crank at installation, however that is another can of worms, I always avoid. Additionally timing indicator marks are marked the same both sides of top dead center so R and L turning engines flywheel and balancer are interchangeable.

TurboTim · Post by **TurboTim** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:21 am

Okay makes sense now that i know both marks are on flywheel. So is my advance done in the module? I didnt see any weights and springs...unless they are under pickup plate? My boat has heat exchangers so the flywheel way would be difficult...plus i think the pointer is missing.

g36 · Post by **g36** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:58 am

the distributor will be mechanical advance and the springs and weights will be under the plate in the distributor.
please what distributors are you using?

timing adjusted by turning the distrubutor but advance will be controlled by weights and springs. if it is an old distributor you may find the springs are rusted away. is there rust inside of the distributor? will the rotor snap back if you turn it by hand?.

TurboTim · Post by **TurboTim** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:27 pm

Distributor is stock as far as I know. I will check motion of rotor when I go out there tonight.

captainmaniac · Post by **captainmaniac** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:56 pm

If you have a timing light you can also use it to figure out if the weights and springs are messed up. Check timing at idle using either the ballancer or flywheel, then rev it up to 2500 or 3000 and see how much the timing changes. I had a problem a couple of years back that was eventually pinned down to advance - I was only getting 2-3degrees. You should get something in the order of 15-25 degrees advance as you rev it up.

By the way : the 360s are based on the 340 blocks, so you may be better to align with 340 specs than 318...