12V TRI CABIN SAGA P3, THE FINAL CHAPTER?

aaronbocknek · Post by **aaronbocknek** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:25 pm

okay fellas, either i have the midas touch or somehow, the 12v wiring 'situation' has fixed itself. or, the boat is from a stephen king novel and is acting like christine. so let's catch those up that have not been privy to this nonsense. when i winterized the boat and started switching 'off' toggle breakers on the 12v panel in the salon. somehow, the forward area of the boat went dark. HEAD,UTILITY AREA, STATEROOM. i traced it to a HOT instead of a GROUND while bypassing the panel using a lead wire from the battery to the fixture in the fwd stateroom. fast forward to today. i usually 'bump' the impellers on the engines and genset once a month. so, i switched on the ENGINE IGNITION LOCKOUT BREAKERS, went up to the helm station and performed my usual impeller bump. going back to the cabin, i went forward to turn on the t.v. and out of the corner of my eye i noticed that the forward head cabin 12v light was on. i did a spot check of the utility area, yep, that light comes on when i open the door. moving forward, the 12v berth lights were shining brightly. so, now i have power where i didn't before. is it possible that the forward area of the boat is powered by the engine lock out breakers or do they share a hot lead on the buss bar? i did not turn the lock out breakers off since i was just too gobsmacked to have power up there. and, if i turn off the lock out breakers and turn them on again and power does not return, does that indicate a short in the system in that isolated area?
thoughts, opinions?
aaron in baltimore

Commissionpoint · Post by **Commissionpoint** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:50 pm

I think we were talking about the possibility you had a hinkey breaker in there when this discussion was going over the winter. I'd say thats still a real good possibility based on your observations.

A few thoughts. One, it is somehow miswired to your ignition circuit. Two, its wired properly and the lighting breaker is shot but works intermittantly in either position when you bump or vibrate the panel like when turning on and off other breakers. Three, your hot wire from the panel is bare or cooked along its course somewhere and is picking up hot from another circuit where it is rubbing when that other circuit is turned on.

prowlersfish · Post by **prowlersfish** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:02 pm

I believe Trojan wire more then the engine to the switch's in question . I lose a lot of things if i turn mine off' . I will look at my diagrams tonight and report what I Find

MadBen · Post by **MadBen** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:19 pm

aaronbocknek wrote:okay fellas, either i have the midas touch or somehow, the 12v wiring 'situation' has fixed itself. or, the boat is from a stephen king novel and is acting like christine. so let's catch those up that have not been privy to this nonsense. when i winterized the boat and started switching 'off' toggle breakers on the 12v panel in the salon. somehow, the forward area of the boat went dark. HEAD,UTILITY AREA, STATEROOM. i traced it to a HOT instead of a GROUND while bypassing the panel using a lead wire from the battery to the fixture in the fwd stateroom. fast forward to today. i usually 'bump' the impellers on the engines and genset once a month. so, i switched on the ENGINE IGNITION LOCKOUT BREAKERS, went up to the helm station and performed my usual impeller bump. going back to the cabin, i went forward to turn on the t.v. and out of the corner of my eye i noticed that the forward head cabin 12v light was on. i did a spot check of the utility area, yep, that light comes on when i open the door. moving forward, the 12v berth lights were shining brightly. so, now i have power where i didn't before. is it possible that the forward area of the boat is powered by the engine lock out breakers or do they share a hot lead on the buss bar? i did not turn the lock out breakers off since i was just too gobsmacked to have power up there. and, if i turn off the lock out breakers and turn them on again and power does not return, does that indicate a short in the system in that isolated area?
thoughts, opinions?
aaron in baltimore

I have nothing valuable to offer you other than...things that fix themselves usually give me the willies...something is not right here. Hope you get to the bottom of it soon. I'm probably going to be picking your brain soon.

Allen Sr · Post by **Allen Sr** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:24 pm

On mine if you turn the lockout breakers off you lose power to everything but the bilge pumps and fridge. They are like 12v mains to turn off the batts.

aaronbocknek · Post by **aaronbocknek** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:44 pm

Allen Sr wrote:On mine if you turn the lockout breakers off you lose power to everything but the bilge pumps and fridge. They are like 12v mains to turn off the batts.

the engine lock out breakers are in between the two dc main breakers. what confuses me is i have been performing the impeller bump (i know, it sounds like a dance from 1977) all winter long and the forward area lights never engaged, but, while i was speaking with paul (prowler) this afternoon, he said, ''did you look at the lights up there before during the winter and never really noticed it?" good point. either way, i sent a voice mail to my mechanic just to give him the heads up on this. and you are right MADBEN, things that fix themselves do NOT sit well with me. i'm going to have to puzzle over this one more. rest assured, there will be a report. now, i'm hitting the rack. with the dog. and no laptop. g'nite boys!
aaron

prowlersfish · Post by **prowlersfish** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:47 pm

That what Aaron says . He will be up all night thinking about this . Maybe a 2 am ride to the boat .

MadBen · Post by **MadBen** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:06 pm

prowlersfish wrote:That what Aaron says . He will be up all night thinking about this . Maybe a 2 am ride to the boat .

OMG! I can so relate to this statement.

Commissionpoint · Post by **Commissionpoint** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:11 pm

Aaron should be on the lookout for this guy.

Oh, btw, its a Gremlin for those of you who were grown-up by 1984 and might not have known. This ones name is 'Stripe', hes the ringleader.

prowlersfish · Post by **prowlersfish** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:14 pm

MadBen wrote:
prowlersfish wrote:That what Aaron says . He will be up all night thinking about this . Maybe a 2 am ride to the boat .
OMG! I can so relate to this statement.

X 2

1967 seavoyager · Post by **1967 seavoyager** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:24 pm

Sounds like a bad ground on the port engine/house circuit.

aaronbocknek · Post by **aaronbocknek** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:28 am

1967 seavoyager wrote:Sounds like a bad ground on the port engine/house circuit.

i thought it was a ground issue, as did my marine mechanic. so, what i did was use my 20' long wire with alligator clips on either end and did a by pass test a few weeks ago. first, i attached the clip to the - (negative) terminal on the battery, then attached the other end of the clip to the ground stud on the forward starboard berth light fixture. (they are wired starboard berth, port berth, head, utility area). once all the clips were attached, i turned on the fixtures and nothing happened. then, i removed one of the HOT wire fixture female clips and performed the same only attaching my bypass wire to the + (positive) battery terminal. the lights all came on, which told me that the gremlin was on the HOT side as opposed to the GROUND side. now, during the winterization process, there was a lot of activity around the engines, so it might be possible that something was knocked loose. as i was tossing and turning in my sleep last night thinking about this, i remember when my mechanic surveyed the boat in october of 2010. the forward area lights did not work, but, after we got back from the sea trial, they worked, and had worked until november of 2011, post winterization. and yes, i've sent him an email and a voice mail. god knows if i fly today, i'll probably be sitting on the jumpseat after takeoff thinking about this. i HATE when my minds gears are clicking. i like thinking in absolutes, and this one just trumps me. ask paul prowler or even mike kulp..... they know how things like this bug the crap out of me.
aaron keeping first watch at 0427

alexander38 · Post by **alexander38** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:33 am

you're an hour late,

aaronbocknek · Post by **aaronbocknek** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:49 am

alexander38 wrote:you're an hour late,

i've been up since 0245. BOTH phil and maccabee were snoring like no ones business. got up, checked my cell phone, put on my pager (i'm under the watchful eye of the crew desk today and tomorrow), brewed a pot of coffee, a cup of oatmeal, and by the time i finished that, his royal highness, maccabee came racing down the stairs and made it very clear it was time for an early morning walk. missions accomplished.

prowlersfish · Post by **prowlersfish** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:37 am

Told you you would not sleep . been to the boat yet ?

Trojan Boat Forum

12V TRI CABIN SAGA P3, THE FINAL CHAPTER?

12V TRI CABIN SAGA P3, THE FINAL CHAPTER?

Re: 12V TRI CABIN SAGA P3, THE FINAL CHAPTER?