Am I missing something here?!?! Painting a boat.

yorklyn · Post by **yorklyn** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:57 am

I have been researching data on repainting my 10 meter. Looking at 2 part polyurthanes (awlgrip etc). The prep is totally confusing/unclear. I understand prep is 99% of the project but I have yet to find instructions that are clear, do A then B then C etc.
My biggest issue is the warnings on all topside /hull paints. They all state that trapped moisture will cause the paint to blister. most state not to use shrinkwrap because the any trapped moisture between the shrinkwrap and hull will cause blisters? dont leave wet cushions on the pait because the paint will blister?!?! I'm alittle concerned spending countless hours in prep plus alot of money to paint my boat with a product that has to stay dry. I shrinkwrap my boat every year to keep it clean and dry. It also gives me an enclosed "tent" to work on the boat during the winter. I cant imagine leaving it uncovered to allow rain and snow to lay on it all winter. Am I missing something?
Thanks

Big D · Post by **Big D** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:02 am

That's new to me. I can understand caution with the moisture content of the surface to be painted, and conditions at time of painting, but after the product has completely cured? Will have to look into that.

LandVF36 · Post by **LandVF36** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:26 pm

What you have read about single part poly paints it true with regards to moisture. I've used it many times, and while I have not had problems with shrink wrap, leaving a vinyl cusion on top of a painted surface of poly will cause bubbling of the paint. The best part of the single part poly paints is that they go on easy, last for 10+ years and never need wax, and if you scratch or mar them, they are pretty color fast so you don't notice touchups.
The best cure for the water issues through is to step up a grade of paint to the 2-part systems like Interlux Perfection (Awlgrip makes one too, I just don't remember the name). These paints work more like epoxy. There is the A part base with the color tint, and a B part hardner, just like epoxy.
The two part paints go on the same as the single (roll and tip or spray), but the clean-up is a mess. I just toss the rollers and brushes and don't even bother to clean them. Also, you only have about 30 min of working time after you mix, or the painting you do will end up looking like the surface of the moon so I only mix a quart at a time. The two parts will hold up much better to moisture, but it seems more difficule to touch up 3-4 yrs later. The blue hull on our F36 is a 2 part and I can't seem to match it for anything.

Big D · Post by **Big D** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:40 pm

LandVF36 wrote:What you have read about single part poly paints it true with regards to moisture. I've used it many times, and while I have not had problems with shrink wrap, leaving a vinyl cusion on top of a painted surface of poly will cause bubbling of the paint. The best part of the single part poly paints is that they go on easy, last for 10+ years and never need wax, and if you scratch or mar them, they are pretty color fast so you don't notice touchups.
The best cure for the water issues through is to step up a grade of paint to the 2-part systems like Interlux Perfection (Awlgrip makes one too, I just don't remember the name). These paints work more like epoxy. There is the A part base with the color tint, and a B part hardner, just like epoxy.
The two part paints go on the same as the single (roll and tip or spray), but the clean-up is a mess. I just toss the rollers and brushes and don't even bother to clean them. Also, you only have about 30 min of working time after you mix, or the painting you do will end up looking like the surface of the moon so I only mix a quart at a time. The two parts will hold up much better to moisture, but it seems more difficule to touch up 3-4 yrs later. The blue hull on our F36 is a 2 part and I can't seem to match it for anything.

This is what's confusing; he's saying it's the 2 part product giving the warning.

yorklyn · Post by **yorklyn** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:41 pm

I love the blue hull! Other than the "touch up" issues with your hull. how has it held up overall? I've been looking at awl grip and even the 2 part will blister from trapped moisture (ie shrinkwrap). I have read that certian paints are more "touch up " friendly. It seems that you give up some duriability in exchange for easy touch. Basically my understanding is the more duriable products dont take well to sanding and buffing the touched up area to match while some products buff out well so you can make spot repairs. I'm confussed!!!!

yorklyn · Post by **yorklyn** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:45 pm

This is from the awl grip site:

Do Not:
1.Do not use traditional waxes.
General:
Traditional waxes break down rapidly. The residue can cause the topcoat to appear yellow, plus it attracts dirt. This creates the need to maintain the wax, increasing overall maintenance. Traditional waxes which contain no abrasives probably do little harm to the coating, but offer no benefit. Awlgrip has developed Awlcare Protective Polymer Sealer 73240 for those who want to enhance their finish and need the additional cleaning power of a hand applied, dry wash product. Awlcare is a non-yellowing sealer that will protect both Awlgrip and Awlcraft 2000 with regular applications. Hand applied Awlcare will not harm Awlgrip topcoats and can easily be removed with Awlprep Plus T0115 (or T0340 Surface Cleaner in Europe) when it is time to repaint.
Awlgrip and Awlgrip HS only:
Regular applications of Awlcare will help temporarily seal and restore shine to painted surfaces that have become porous due to age or mistreatment, helping to maintain a satisfactory appearance until there is time to repaint.
Awlcraft 2000 only:
Awlcare Protective Polymer Sealer will help maintain the gloss on Awlcraft 2000 topcoats with regular applications, especially those which have been buffed or polished. Remember, Awlcare is only applied and buffed by hand. Never apply or buff Awlcare with a machine.
2.Do not use abrasives, scratch pads or polishing compounds. Scratching the surface gives dirt a place to cling while wearing out the resin layer. Using abrasives of any kind will reduce the overall life of the finish and voids the Awlgrip Limited Warranty.
3.Do not allow contact between the Awlgrip, Awlgrip HS or Awlcraft 2000 Topcoat and teak cleaners. Most teak cleaners contain acids or caustic agents that stain and discolor an Awlgrip, Awlgrip HS or Awlcraft 2000 Topcoat.
4.Do not allow metal polishes to dry on the surface of Awlgrip, Awlgrip HS or Awlcraft 2000. Metal polishes may discolor and stain the painted surface. Metal polishes contain acids. Rainwater and dew running off metal fittings will spread metal polish residue onto the paint surface and will etch and dull the paint finish. Washing freshly polished metal fittings thoroughly with Awlwash and water can help eliminate polish residue and reduce the metal polish run off.
5.Do not use strong solvents (e.g. lacquer thinner, M.E.K., acetone) to clean Awlcraft 2000, Awlbrite Clear or Awlspar Varnish.
6.Do not allow wet equipment (e.g. seat cushions, coils of line, sails, sail covers, coolers) to trap and hold moisture against Awlgrip Topcoats. This condition can result in blistering or delamination of the Awlgrip, Awlgrip HS or Awlcraft 2000 Topcoat.
7.Do not use acrylic â€ TeflonÂ® coatings over an Awlgrip, Awlgrip HS or Awlcraft 2000 Finish. Use of these coatings voids the Awlgrip Limited Warranty.
8.Do not â€˜shrink wrapâ€™ or tightly bind Awlgrip, Awlgrip HS or Awlcraft 2000 Topcoat surfaces with plastic wrappings. The cover system, whether synthetic or natural fiber, should be ventilated to allow the coating system to â€˜breatheâ€™. Do not pull the cover tight to the surface painted with Awlgrip, Awlgrip HS or Awlcraft 2000 Topcoat. This can trap and hold moisture on the surface, resulting in loss of gloss, blistering, or delamination of the topcoat. Do not allow the cover to chafe against the painted surface, a chafing cover, especially when accompanied by airborne dirt, can abrade the surface and cause premature loss of gloss.

jefflaw35 · Post by **jefflaw35** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:00 pm

your prep work will be just as improtant and the money you spend for quality paint. Im steerig away from awgrip as to many people have different opinions about it. I refuse to paint anything with single stage products anymore. Even auto industry insurance companys stopped paying for the use of them because the quality just doesnt hold up. Im an auto painter by trade but I have been researching gelcoat and marine products for 2 months now. Im going with Alexseal's basecoat/clearcoat system on my hull. I have alot of stress cracks to repair so the intire boat will most likey be primed with a 2 part urathane primer that will help seal up the porus gelcoat. Im going to use automotive B/C on my transom so I can airbrush the boat name and clear over it several times. The top half of the boat will be risinished just like a car. Alot of people wouldnt agree but since i do this for a living and have painted 3 other boats im comfortable with it. My work has been in salt water for over 10 years now and the guys havent had any problems yet. base/clear system should prevent the bubbling problem if you leave wet cusions on it. prep prep prep and buy good paint! I dont suggest painting any large area of anything until the season temps get higher, keep in mind that cure times on any paint product can range from 90 days to a year. auto paint after it bakes for 30 minutes still cures for almost 3 months. only the factory can get fast times as they bake from 350 to 500 degrees before the car is built. im not going to start my paint work untill i see a dry constant of 70 and above, but before it hit 100 outside. cool temps give you more working time but longer cure process, If you need help with a solid prep procedure let me know and i can walk you through it. I wouldnt worry to much about what you read, i read it to and kinda giggled, its a little extreme but that is also single stage for you, easier is not alway better, a little more $ in product and a little longer process will give you a better, stronger, longer lasting, prittier paint job. And I will let everyone know how my idea auto paint works out. its no loss to me if it doest last 15 years but I really dont see a problem with it on upper half and transom. after reading ALOT I am going with alexseal for the hull and just regualr old bottom paint. salt and grime wipes off car paint like anything else and it is easly repaired

jefflaw35 · Post by **jefflaw35** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:04 pm

i havent waxed paint in over 15 years, these new paint dont need it. polishing is fine, as far as shrink wrap goes just keep in mind anything white should be kept up as it stains and looks dirty easily, trapped moisture will cause dmamge on anything IMO. but if you have a good quilty paint and you can polish it quickly after you unwrap it before the sun started to bake it in then you should be just fine. IMO from reading and listening, i wouldnt us awgrip

jefflaw35 · Post by **jefflaw35** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:11 pm

an easy touch up solution would be, even if you painted with single stage, touch up with basecoat on a brush, let dry them bruch clearcoat over it, water sand it plat with 1200-1500 and it should buff out nicly

yorklyn · Post by **yorklyn** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:12 pm

Thanks Jeff. I was going to wait till the end of my project to paint but since I'm at the mercy of the weather (temp and humidity, Boat is inside but my shop is not conditioned) I may try to fit it in this spring or wost case in the fall. I will definatly get in touch with you about prep as I get alitte closer. Thanks

Big D · Post by **Big D** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:13 pm

yorklyn wrote:...... 6.Do not allow wet equipment (e.g. seat cushions, coils of line, sails, sail covers, coolers) to trap and hold moisture against Awlgrip Topcoats. This condition can result in blistering or delamination of the Awlgrip, Awlgrip HS or Awlcraft 2000 Topcoat.....8.Do not â€˜shrink wrapâ€™ or tightly bind Awlgrip, Awlgrip HS or Awlcraft 2000 Topcoat surfaces with plastic wrappings. The cover system, whether synthetic or natural fiber, should be ventilated to allow the coating system to â€˜breatheâ€™. Do not pull the cover tight to the surface painted with Awlgrip, Awlgrip HS or Awlcraft 2000 Topcoat. This can trap and hold moisture on the surface, resulting in loss of gloss, blistering, or delamination of the topcoat. Do not allow the cover to chafe against the painted surface, a chafing cover, especially when accompanied by airborne dirt, can abrade the surface and cause premature loss of gloss.

That's interesting. Seems like the product is somewhat limiting. It's been around for a long time though and I have never heard of such complaints due to blistering because of moisture trapped by shrink wrap and cushions. I just read everything I have on Perfection and no such warnings are mentioned.

jefflaw35 · Post by **jefflaw35** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:17 pm

no problem man, ill probly beat you to it so youll be able to learn from mine. Flex additive will be a must for the auto paint. marine paint already have it in them.

Big D · Post by **Big D** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:21 pm

Foofer b used Perfection. Foofer, any comments on the product and how it has held up so far??

LandVF36 · Post by **LandVF36** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:41 pm

Yorklyn, its held up great. The ONLY problem I have had is dock rash. Its a little more work to keep clean than a white hull. On the Mississippi, we have a lot of calcium in the water so it spots quick. Each spring before she leave the lot, wipe it down with something to break down the lime and buff it out with a lambswool bonnet. Then while in the slip, I have to do touch up once a month in the summer.

yorklyn · Post by **yorklyn** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:01 pm

Found this Thread on a interlux paint forum

http://www.yachtpaintforum.com/brightsi ... ic496.html

So brightside paint needs to be recoated every 3 years???