swaping out 360 for 454 in my tricabin?

This forum is for comments and the exchange of information relating to Trojan Boats and boating. Please do not post used parts or boats For Sale in this area. For general, non-boating topics please use our "General Discussions" section.

Note: Negative or inflammatory postings will not be tolerated.

Moderators: BeaconMarineBob, Moderator, BeaconMarineDon

User avatar
Commissionpoint
Active User
Posts: 1197
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:59 pm
Location: Diamond Point on Lake George, NY

Post by Commissionpoint »

I think this is an interesting topic and I have been reading it, but then again I think all retrofit projects are interesting as long as you aren't spending a ton of money to put something real nice into a dumper. I don't at all think this proposed project comes even close to falling in that catagory, but judge me in the light of day, I think Jeff has a good retrofit going too. ;) (Tounge-In-Cheek b4 ne1 cops a mental.)

All silliness aside, you can definately direct mount a 7.4 to a 7X B/W. My question is though, that in this day of gas prices as they are combined with the idea they are going up from here and not down, why would you want to push a tri around with 7 1/2 litre gasoline driven V-8's? Torque for wheel pitch? Nowai. Thats broken logic as I see it, sorry for saying so.

If you are talking reasonably about repowering a tri-cabin in todays world, then resonably you have to take big blocks out of the equation. There is really no need to have them if you are going to already go to the expense of doing a proper refit when you consider the changes in marine engine technology since the glory days of Trojan production. The torque curves on modern small blocks blow away what was thought of as cutting edge in the 70's. If you have to go gasoline then IMO you have to go GM small block to repower one of these in todays world. Call me crazy, but thats the way I see it.

Alternatively, I'd try to think of a way to get a 4.3 Vortec V-6 to work in an F-series. Theres an idea which defys convention, but I think Scott is already ahead of the curve using 6 holers in an F-32. His are the trusty 165 inline jobbers which are period correct but never a factory option, but considering the results hes been getting (which from what I've heard about are pretty darned good), I'd really be interested in what a modern 4.3 could be made to do in this application.
1978 F-32 "Eclipse"
Merc 305 SBC's
1.52:1 Borg Warners

1983 Correct Craft
Commander 351 Ford (PCM)
1:1 Borg Warner

There are 350 different varieties of shark, not counting loan or pool.
kevin babineau
Moderate User
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:39 pm
Location: ipswich ma

Post by kevin babineau »

i agree that i would rather go down in gas but is it about money..i have the 454s already..i guess i could entertain selling the big blocks to fund a v6 project. last night i fired the 454s and they appear to run well..now the next step is getting the motor swap going in the tricabin...
User avatar
prowlersfish
2025 Gold Support
2025 Gold Support
Posts: 12724
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:56 pm
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay ,Va

Post by prowlersfish »

The fuel burn depends a how you run them , engine size won't make much difference unless you use the power
Boating is good for the soul
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
kevin babineau
Moderate User
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:39 pm
Location: ipswich ma

Post by kevin babineau »

update; well i got the 454s running..so tonight i went back to the 360s..starboard motor after i connected a solid wire from the batt swich to the starter 'clicked' i marked the harmonic balancer and sure enough it moved....a couple more clicks and the motor spun over. green antifreeze blowing out of all cylinders..after i try the port motor i will remove the manifolds (intake and exhaust) and compression test..i also was thinking of bringing each cylinder to tdc and charging the cylinder with compressed air and listen for leak down...it appears i have anti freeze in ALL cylinders..i dont understand how that could happen...possibilties are 1)head gaskets on bothsides, 2) exhaust manifolds on both sides. 3) cracked blocks on both sides 4) intake manifold rotted between water jacket and intake port then filling cylinder pushing it out the exhaust and then going into the other cylinders thru the exhaust side. 5) someone poured antifreeze down the carb. i also noticed a water/sluge line on the outside of the oil pan meaning the bilge filled with water.. i also noticed that the thru hull t-handle plug was drilled thru from the outside(maybe to drain boat.)... now here is where i need some help..if i figure out that everything looks ok what are the chances the motor will run and not spin a bearing? are my chances as good or better 50/50 that they will live? lol
User avatar
Commissionpoint
Active User
Posts: 1197
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:59 pm
Location: Diamond Point on Lake George, NY

Post by Commissionpoint »

If you have standing water (or antifreeze) in the lower end 50/50 is insanely optimistic IMO. I'd say reasonably its less than a 10% chance you wont roach the crank if you run it as is for any length of time.
1978 F-32 "Eclipse"
Merc 305 SBC's
1.52:1 Borg Warners

1983 Correct Craft
Commander 351 Ford (PCM)
1:1 Borg Warner

There are 350 different varieties of shark, not counting loan or pool.
User avatar
prowlersfish
2025 Gold Support
2025 Gold Support
Posts: 12724
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:56 pm
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay ,Va

Post by prowlersfish »

How long did you run it ? I assume not a long time , If you had no coolant in the engine crank case before and this just happened , I would believe the lower end ( bearings and crank) to be OK . If someone had poured antifreeze down the crab you would have not got it running in the first place . Was the oil leavel over filled before ? Whats the oil look like now ?

You can always pull the pan when you get the engines out
Boating is good for the soul
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
kevin babineau
Moderate User
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:39 pm
Location: ipswich ma

Post by kevin babineau »

i didnt run the engine lastnight..i only turned it over...the oil is over filled and it looks like oil on the whole stick.. no discoloring doesnt taste sweet. i blew out all most of the antifreeze out of the cylinders refilled the heat exchanger and used a coolant pressurizer and pressurized the the system to 15 pounds.. today im gonna see it any of the cylinders have antifreeze it in..i dont want to waste money by changing the oil, and new spark plugs. ill try running it today to see if it fires.. if she fires then give it a full compression check... with the antifreeze residue in it i was getting 175 pounds in the cylinders i checked..i didnt check all of them..trying to get the guage threaded in there was kicking my ass.. im thinking the high compression is due to the fluid in the cylinders and if i burn it off then ill get more of an accurate compression reading... but whos to say that all cylinders will fire with old plugs and some antifreeze in there. im pretty sure that i will be tearing the motor down to the head gaskets just to check them them and to see what the cylinders look like..if i had the money i would just send everything out to be magna fluxed for cracks but in this area its pricey.. obviously these motors have issues..i find it odd that two motors have the same problem..you guys think i should try what i mentioned..running it as is or just tear them appart..i dont plan on running it long just to try to see if it will fire and if it sounds like a box of marbles.. it just haunts me not to change the oil before i try to run it..
User avatar
Commissionpoint
Active User
Posts: 1197
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:59 pm
Location: Diamond Point on Lake George, NY

Post by Commissionpoint »

So get the plugs out of there and clean them up a little if you can.

Get it to turn by hand. Then by starter without the coil attached. A little Mystery Oil (or even some Diesel or Kero) in each cylinder then more turning with the starter, then put your plugs back in it, and get ready to test fire it.

I'm thinking your overfill situation on the stick is oil sitting on top of antifreeze. I could be wrong, but I'd definately check into that if I were you.

Good luck working on it today.
1978 F-32 "Eclipse"
Merc 305 SBC's
1.52:1 Borg Warners

1983 Correct Craft
Commander 351 Ford (PCM)
1:1 Borg Warner

There are 350 different varieties of shark, not counting loan or pool.
User avatar
prowlersfish
2025 Gold Support
2025 Gold Support
Posts: 12724
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:56 pm
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay ,Va

Post by prowlersfish »

Both engines ? do you have enough antifreeze in a Cly to check the freezing point ? Did both engines hold a pressure check ?
Boating is good for the soul
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
kevin babineau
Moderate User
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:39 pm
Location: ipswich ma

Post by kevin babineau »

update..starboard motor..star date log 8-2-2012..lol ..after cleaning plugs, shutting fuel off and jumping ignition, manually filled the quadrajet thru the top horn... poured some fuel in the carb and first turn she fired right up a little lifter tick and idled well until the carb ran out of fuel... i have seen motors run and the inside valley under the intake was blown out but that made water in the oil.. i dont know..she actually sounded good...i didnt run it hard or long though...it had 8 pounds of pressure in the cooling system this morning...when i left it at 1am i pumped it to 10 pounds.. last night i heard it psss in the expansion tank in the exchanger...what you guy think? you think no matter what i should tear it down to the head gaskets? ill compression check all cylinders and then jump ship and try port side motor.. if port wont run then they are both coming out ..
kevin babineau
Moderate User
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:39 pm
Location: ipswich ma

Post by kevin babineau »

well i jumped over to port side motor..no luck frozen up still.. is a really nice day here so im off to play on the water..
kevin babineau
Moderate User
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:39 pm
Location: ipswich ma

Post by kevin babineau »

oh i looked at the width of the stringers and it looks ike the 454s will fit with no modification i will though gusset them up just because...the problems as it seems are exhaust hose current go into a pretty small log it looks like 3 inch (could be wrong)..the bunk boxes/engine covers need another inch wider... with 360 lay flat as opposed to the 454s angle..i thinkthe 454 have a wedge adapter under the carb..i hope..to make the carb lay flat...so the biggest thing i think is getting the motors out of the tricabin and the 454s back in..
kevin babineau
Moderate User
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:39 pm
Location: ipswich ma

Re: swaping out 360 for 454 in my tricabin?

Post by kevin babineau »

well i got sidetracked with the motor swap when i had to gut the top and aft decks now im at the engine swapping point again i have gotten a pair of 225hp 318s and i still have the 454s im trying to decide which pair of motors to put in i have the tricabin ready for engine removal and the swap the 318s would be the easiest swap electrically is plus and play and everything will just bolt in there i feel the 454s are a better choice we are 660 combined hp as opposed to 450hp any suggestions?
User avatar
prowlersfish
2025 Gold Support
2025 Gold Support
Posts: 12724
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:56 pm
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay ,Va

Re: swaping out 360 for 454 in my tricabin?

Post by prowlersfish »

Wow I guess you did get side tracked :D . If your planning on running at speed the 454s would be a better choice . If you what to run at hull speed (8 knots or less ) the 318 would be fine . I think the 318s would plane it propped right , under good condtions . But they would be working very hard .

You refer to your old engines being 360s if that's the case the 318 is a bolt in . BUT !!! I do not think you have 360s , in fact I am 99% sure of it . You said something about a pan under the intake , that would make them a Big block Chrysler . Most likely a 280hp (383 or 400 cid ) . The 360s will look exactly like the 318s the big blocks would not . The "A" block (318/360) has the Distributor at flywheel/trans end , the " B" block has it at the front ( belts/pully ) end

Any pics of what you have ?
Boating is good for the soul
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
Post Reply