Bilge Theory - Opinions wanted!

Diverted Income · Post by **Diverted Income** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:05 pm

F32 with a leaky sea cock. I know which one, just dripping. Engine room bilge pump keeps water in check for now. Always have a mystery water in forward bilge. Bilge in galley section is dry or ever so slightly damp to the touch. Could water from engine area be traveling through the keel and appearing in forward area? Planned on using shop vac to completely remove water from forward section, make a mark on hull and time the water to the mark. Then remove standing water from engine area and re-time forward area to see if it is affected. Thoughts? Or am I all wet (literally)
Thanks!

gettaway · Post by **gettaway** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:12 pm

one, fix the through hull as soon as practical, and two, the bilge angle runs forward, so dripping stuffing boxes, dripping through hull, all will travel forward when the boat is at rest, one of my major dislikes of the F-32, it makes the forward cabin smell and my wife hates it.
I understand there is a mysterious hollow keel in these boats as well, and there have been a number of posts of owners opening them up and keeping them pumped out, however, I have yet to see any actual photos of this, or the actual location of where you would cut into the bilge to access this hollow section

jav · Post by **jav** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:12 pm

the f-32's bilge low point is the forward bilge. Any water entering the bilge anywhere, flows to low point (right under the access panel at the bunk step).

Not sure I understand what you mean by the pump keeps up with the sea cock drip. Are you saying the leaking sea cock is in then engine room? If so, how would the water be getting high enough to trigger a central bilge pump? Are your limber holes sealed? Do you perhaps still have a hollow keel and is a pump mounted into the cavity?

Diverted Income · Post by **Diverted Income** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:18 pm

Water leak is an engine sea cock. Can see the drip trail. Pump is in the engine area. No water appears to be traveling through the bulk head in front of the engines. Never gets high enough, engine room pump and float switch take care of that. If it wasn't, I could understand water in the forward bilge.

gettaway · Post by **gettaway** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:48 pm

must be seeping through the large woving glass mat and filling the forbidden zone

Away On Busine$$ · Post by **Away On Busine$$** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:24 pm

Currently I have only one bilge pump located in the bow at he lowest point where the sea cock is located, and yes I have two three inch holes drilled through the false keel. This boat is new to me, told by previous owner to block strean high to allow water to flow to the bow. I do this but I also spill to gallons of atnifreeze in to strean section and allow to flow to the bow to ensure an Ontatio winter will not cause any freeze problems.
This spring will fill the false keel with spray foam to eliminate standing water. Still really learning all this stuff. Sorry no pictures to show.

Commissionpoint · Post by **Commissionpoint** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:33 pm

I don't have a midship pump. Just forward and aft. Unless the boat is on plane or in trouble the aft one is just about useless. As mentioned before the F-32 has a slight forward cant. If your limber holes are unobstructed, all water in the bilge area should run into the forward bilge compartment. This is also the area above the hollow keel that Getaway was talking about. My forward pump sits on the flat area that is the bottom of the bilge or top of the hollow keel. (depending on how you think of it)

Try a cup of water between the stringers and see where it goes. If it starts pooling up against a bulkhead you will know that there is a blockage of some kind. You can always towel it up so you can get at the problem if need be.

RWS · Post by **RWS** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:51 pm

maybe try some water with food coloring in it to see where it migrates to

RWS

Diverted Income · Post by **Diverted Income** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:13 pm

RWS wrote:maybe try some water with food coloring in it to see where it migrates to

RWS

Good idea.

So it seems the theory "holds water" anyway about the water migrating forward. Had lots of windshield time today to think about it. Anyone else, please fire away.
Thanks!

captainmaniac · Post by **captainmaniac** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:04 pm

Just in case you missed a couple of key points :
- bow low is normal, most of the water will try to go there.
- Limber holes - you should have unobstructed flow from bow to stern, so when you say 'no water appears to be travelling through the bulkhead in front of the engines', water SHOULD be able to get through there. You don't need tons of it - even a trickle running forward should move through the limber hole under that bulkhead and get forward. If it isn't, you need to clear out the limber holes
- water can come from ANYWHERE. Leaking thru-hull is one possibility, but leaking water tank or lines to faucets, shaft or rudder stuffing boxes, cooling system leaks, improperly bedded fasteners for trim tabs or swim platform, rain water entry through your vents, or rain water coming in around hatches on the aft deck are all possible sources.

At one point in time, one of my sources was wave action outside the hull when running in certain conditions, that was forcing water into the shower drain thru-hull. This was a problem mostly because the yahoo who owned the boat before me disconnected the hose between the shower drain and the thru-hull so that the head floor stayed dry in those kind of wave conditions.... The only problem - whatever water might get forced in went right to the bilge. I reconnected the hose and put in a one-way valve instead.

comodave · Post by **comodave** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:49 pm

I suspect that the water is getting into the hollow keel back in the engine room and the running forward to the bow. The woven roving that covers the hollow keel is fairly porus, at least it was on my F32. I could watch it seep up through the roving in the bow. My wife is also very adverse to smells, so I knew that I had to do something about this issue. I was very concerned about drilling a hole into the hollow area and not drilling into the hull accidentally. I took a screw driver and poked it into the roving and with almost no effort, it went through and a water spout about 3 inches high appeared. The smell was awful, probably worse than the holding tank. I then used a hole saw to enlarge the hole and vacuumed the water out. After drilling a hole in the engine room area, I put disinfectant in and flushed the keel out as good as possible. It helped, but not by much. Since my boat is 2400 miles away, I have to hire a lot of the work done. My fiberglass guys cut out the woven roving completely and ground it smooth. I had them glass the forward bulkhead in the engine room closed down to the very bottom. This prevents fumes and possible oil spills from migrating forward and keeps them contained in the engine room. I will have to put in a diaphragm pump in the engine room to suction out the last bit of the water below the centrifugal pump in the front of the engine room. When they opened up the keel, inspite of my attempt to flush it out, they said it was disgustingly filthy and stinky. I have some photos of the work after the roving was removed, if I can figure out how to post them I will. In my boat there was oil residue all the way to the vee berth. This will stop any more of that and the boat smells MUCH better already and I have not even cleaned the bilge yet.

comodave · Post by **comodave** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:18 am

I am going to paste a link to the photos, I think... This is the first time I have tried to upload photos.http://s1061.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... e/library/

Big D · Post by **Big D** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:22 am

Here you go;
http://s1061.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... e/library/

Hit the "URL" box before you insert the link, then hit the box again after you paste the link in. Hope that helps. Great pics Comodave!

comodave · Post by **comodave** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:25 am

OK, that photo post did not work exactly like I had hoped. I have the photos in photobucket, but can not figure out how to get them to post.

Another point, I would be very careful before filling the hollow keel with foam. Even a closed cell foam will let water accumulate in the voids and then you will have no way of evacuating the water, also you will not be able to get it really clean before you inject the foam.. My glass guys were not in favor of that plan. The keel area that is now open is not that large and I don't think that it will prove to be a problem and I can certainly keep it clean now. The woven roving in my boat had no structrual strenght since it would oil can with very minimal pressure, so I am not concerned about loosing any structral integrity.

Commissionpoint · Post by **Commissionpoint** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:28 am

comodave wrote:I am going to paste a link to the photos, I think... This is the first time I have tried to upload photos. http://s1061.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... e/library/

fixed link

Oops. Big D beat me to it.

Damn, he did a nicer job fixing the link than me too.