Bilge Theory - Opinions wanted!

[Diverted Income]

Where is the keel plug located?

[Commissionpoint]

I said that I have a keel plug. I don't know that you have one. I can't recall if there was one on the last one we had, so I am not sure if its factory or aftermarket added by one of the 3 previous owners. (Paging Nancy) I haven't even seen the damn thing. I just know its there. The yacht club winterized it and I wasn't there at the time because I trust them. All I know is Nancy reminded me more than once about it and I reminded my yard guys. There is a definate hole on the Stbd. side of the forward keel in the same compartment as the forward bilge pump. When I went to go check the winterization work I looked down and saw the parking lot through a hole you could drop a quarter through. It occured to me at that time it must be the keel plug Nancy was talking about or the yard foreman and I were going to have some serious words come spring! Still haven't seen the hardware that goes in there though, its in a bucket in the club office that says Eclipse on it with a bunch of other stuff. I'm sure I'll see it in the spring though.

[Diverted Income]

Seems like a "Must have" for an Iowa haul out. I would hate to think of what would happen if it had water in it and froze. Thanks for all the comments!
Craig

[Nancy]

We installed the keel plug in the spring of 2009 after noticing some weeping where the keel meets the hull. Well, that's oversimplified! The keel plug was installed after the problem area was repaired. It turned out there was a void in the area the water was coming from, and that was ground to solid material and filled. Our fiberglass guy recommended the keel plug as a way to let any future water drain instead of freezing and expanding.

The plug in on the starboard side of the keel at the lowest, aft-most point. I have photos of the work in progress, but before the plug was installed. I can email them to you, Michael, if you want. With this week's predicted thaw, you might want to traipse out there with an adjustable crescent wrench just in case because it sounds like the yard might have missed this plug. Better yet, have them traipse out there.

There's really no need to remove the plug in the forward bilge as long as the bilge is dry after the boat has been covered.

As for Pine-Sol, it's enough to gag a maggot especially when you mix it with the contents of a holding tank. I know what it does to a Vacuflush system. It can't be much better for bilge pumps.

[Larrys78]

I must agree blocking off the bilge compartments is a very bad idea. These are not ships where you seal off a bulk head incase of a hull breach such as a dead head strike. If you were unfortunate to poke a hole in the hull in the engine compartment and flooding should occur you will cut you amount of travel time dramatically. The best chance for survival is to have a large bilge pump or two in the stern of the boat allowing the maximum amount of time to maintain power and a chance to get to safety,help or shore. I have been boating on the West Coast for 40 years and when things go wrong time is all you have. Please think safety before convenience.,

[RWS]

As for Pine-Sol, it's enough to gag a maggot especially when you mix it with the contents of a holding tank. I know what it does to a Vacuflush system. It can't be much better for bilge pumps.

=============================================

I generally use Dawn liquid dishwashing detergent, and after cleaning out the holding tank due to th edisentegration of the lid seal have also used this product in the head to the holding tank.

Not to hijack the thread, but what does pine sol do?

RWS

[Nancy]

RWS, Pine-Sol disintegrates rubber and is not kind to hose and metal. So it ate the vacuum tank switch (big $ for a tiny part) and caused the pump to need rebuilding. It was a big contributor to having to swap out or repair almost every component in the system, the other one being the previous owner who didn't flush enough water to clear the lines.

If you think you need soap to clean the head system, dishwasher detergent would be a better choice because it's not as bubbly as Dawn, but it kills the aerobic process in the holding tank.

I've taken to squirting a little Dawn in the bilge once a week, and I like it for that. I do wish it were more environment-kindly, though it's not awful.

Michael, re: discharge in Lake George - what happens when your bilge pump discharges some nasty water? Eclipse never had a Sahara-like bilge. It never took on a huge amount of water, but heck, the lazarette hatches have no overboard drains, so even rain water ends up in the bilge.

[Commissionpoint]

Michael, re: discharge in Lake George - what happens when your bilge pump discharges some nasty water? Eclipse never had a Sahara-like bilge. It never took on a huge amount of water, but heck, the lazarette hatches have no overboard drains, so even rain water ends up in the bilge.

You can actually be jailed for overboard discharge of anything with sewage, soap, or petro chemicals in it. We have all kinds of enforcement from Environmental Conservation Officers (in NY more powerful than the state police), the Lake George Park Commission, the regular county and state police, and the USCG Aux. My thru hulls from the sinks and showers are permanently plugged and are plumbed into a 60 gallon gray water tank now which is between the rear fuel tanks and over the fresh water tank. I put the deck plate in the mirror position of the water fill on the Port side, so both of the waste deck plates are to Port, and fresh water is Stbd. I have pictures of the process and will do a writeup if anyone wants me to, but I didn't do one initially because I figured that A) nobody else was in the same situation so nobody really cared about a gray water system, and B ) I would hear a whole lot of 'music' from some people about how stupid and expensive they think a gray wayer system is, and frankly, I didn't feel like listening to it.

If you have a few days and want to figure out what the regulations are here on LG you can start here. http://www.lgpc.state.ny.us/Regs.html

It might be an expensive pain in the @ss, but you can drink the water I boat in directly from the source untreated. Anyone else here able to do that for long without getting sick or dying? I tend to seriously doubt it. On a sunny day you can see 25 to 30 feet down.

[The Dog House]

It might be an expensive pain in the @ss, but you can drink the water I boat in directly from the source untreated. Anyone else here able to do that for long without getting sick or dying? I tend to seriously doubt it. On a sunny day you can see 25 to 30 feet down.

25 to 30 feet down is amazing. On a sunny day on the Delaware River, we might be able to see 5 feet down. Of course with all of the ocean going freighters plying the river, a no discharge zone is never going to happen. The water is fine to swim in, but I wouldn't want to drink it.

[rossjo]

It might be an expensive pain in the @ss, but you can drink the water I boat in directly from the source untreated. Anyone else here able to do that for long without getting sick or dying? I tend to seriously doubt it. On a sunny day you can see 25 to 30 feet down.

Well, I'm docked in 12' of SaltWater - so you'd be drinking Pluff Mud - not too tasty - and it would make you very sick I'm sure.

[hmc]

Michael, re: discharge in Lake George - what happens when your bilge pump discharges some nasty water? Eclipse never had a Sahara-like bilge. It never took on a huge amount of water, but heck, the lazarette hatches have no overboard drains, so even rain water ends up in the bilge.

You can actually be jailed for overboard discharge of anything with sewage, soap, or petro chemicals in it. We have all kinds of enforcement from Environmental Conservation Officers (in NY more powerful than the state police), the Lake George Park Commission, the regular county and state police, and the USCG Aux. My thru hulls from the sinks and showers are permanently plugged and are plumbed into a 60 gallon gray water tank now which is between the rear fuel tanks and over the fresh water tank. I put the deck plate in the mirror position of the water fill on the Port side, so both of the waste deck plates are to Port, and fresh water is Stbd. I have pictures of the process and will do a writeup if anyone wants me to, but I didn't do one initially because I figured that A) nobody else was in the same situation so nobody really cared about a gray water system, and B ) I would hear a whole lot of 'music' from some people about how stupid and expensive they think a gray wayer system is, and frankly, I didn't feel like listening to it.

If you have a few days and want to figure out what the regulations are here on LG you can start here. http://www.lgpc.state.ny.us/Regs.html

It might be an expensive pain in the @ss, but you can drink the water I boat in directly from the source untreated. Anyone else here able to do that for long without getting sick or dying? I tend to seriously doubt it. On a sunny day you can see 25 to 30 feet down.

YOU USE BOTTOM PAINT ?

[Cmount]

Which picture is the area under the stateroom floor?

I'm think that 2 bilge pumps might be the trick up there now - using a small pump that would fit lower into the hollow keel area and a bigger pump (for emergencies) above that. Both automatic (floats, not the electronic automatic that click on periodically).

Thoughts?

I just did exactly this using the Whale pump as the small "in keel pump" I m planning on cutting another access point in the engine room to let the water move through the keel whenever possible. I am hopping to get the smell out. I dont have an issue with water in the bilge...as long as I can keep it fresh! I will send pictures next weekend.

[Nancy]

Michael, I knew all that about the gray water regulations for sinks and showers. What about bilge pump discharge? Is that controlled/controllable?

[Commissionpoint]

YOU USE BOTTOM PAINT ?

I am allowed to use certain types. Its not really a big issue as its fresh water and we have very little fouling. A little algae is about it. Lots of folks run bare bottoms. I would too, but it looks funny on that boat.

{Paraphrased} She said something about bilge discharge and I can't remember what exactly cuz I can't multi-quote and don't remember what the precise wording was

I can discharge bilge water, but if it has paint, oil, gas, waste, or other contamination I have to use a shop vac or face huge fines for pollution if I get caught. I'm telling you the bilges in that 32 are like the Sahara. I could open a dried flowers business under the cockpit deck. I had to actually sit on a stringer with a stopwatch and time the stuffing box drips because I thought they were too tight. They aren't. They are PERFECT. I think the aft pump had a total of a pint run through it this year, and after I sealed the $hit out of the v-berth hatch the front pump went on vacation too.

[Nancy]

I'm telling you the bilges in that 32 are like the Sahara. I could open a dried flowers business under the cockpit deck. I had to actually sit on a stringer with a stopwatch and time the stuffing box drips because I thought they were too tight. They aren't. They are PERFECT. I think the aft pump had a total of a pint run through it this year, and after I sealed the $hit out of the v-berth hatch the front pump went on vacation too.

Sweet! Yeah, the aft bilge was always dry. But I wonder where the rainwater is going. Oh well, I never argue with success.

Stuffing boxes and stopwatch - ha ha! you and John both!

As for bilge water going overboard, unless there's a major malfunction, any traces of gas or oil would be floating in the bilge and never be low enough to get pumped out anyway.

She like Lake George - no question!