BEWARE MARINE MECHANICS...broken sea cocks

[aaronbocknek]

buyer beware.... i had my 1976 f-32's mercruiser engines ''professionally'' winterized on friday the 17th by intercoastal marine in middle river, md. i was 'asked' by the owner of the company to not be there during the process as, ''the mechanic did not want any distractions and wanted to get the job done''. okay, first red flag. upon visiting the boat later that evening to inspect the job, i noticed that the raw water intake hoses were removed from the water pump and secured to the wooden floor joist so the hose was well above the water line. thinking that this is a new way of doing things, i payed a visit to the shop early saturday morning. terry, the owner/operator said that ''there was a slight problem with my port sea cock''. naturally, my stomach tightened. he said, ''mike (the mechanic) tried to close my port sea cock but the ''t'' handle 'broke off in his hand when he tried to turn it', and left the starboard one open and untouched." well guess what fellow trojan owners, i now need to have the boat hauled in the early spring and have both engine sea cocks replaced because of this. i looked at the sea cock and i have to tell you, there is no way that this broke off in mikes hand. he did not use any sort of thread loosener (pb blaster is the best)-- http://www.pbblaster.com ---- and looks like he used a wrench to turn the handle. so, a word of advice. always pre treat your sea cocks, and 'exercise' them once a week like my dad did on our f-36. now i know why he did that. if you are indoubt, use pb blaster to penatrate the threads etc.....i used it on a sticky drain plug and after 5 minutes it came right out. any auto store has this great product. i contacted the owner of edwards boat yard (right next door to my marina) and they said they will tow the boat over in early march and do the work. the yard master said that he wanted the boat out of the water for at least 3 weeks to let the epoxy cure properly. so, while she is hauled there, i am going to have a second depth sounder put in for the lower helm and have the bottom painted. and ALWAYS be down at your boat when you are having work done. i will NEVER not be there if i have a wrench turner on my vessel. and ofcourse, intercoastal marine will not take money off the work they did because as they put it---"i should have known my sea cock would not open and close". i guess so, but it does not make me feel any better. i am sure that terry and mike meant well, but they could have knocked a few bucks off the job.
let me know if any of you out there have had similar experiences.
aaron

[Stripermann2]

That's too bad Aaron. The seacocks have a wing-bolt which you must loosen first, then turn the T handle. Seacocks also, will freeze-up over periods when they normally aren't opened and shut. They need to be worked, time to time. I have removed and replaced a seacock on my boat while in water...very quickly! You need to have some wooden plugs handy.

Things like this will happen with a boat. You'll get use to it.

[aaronbocknek]

hey man, thanks for the response. my dad on our f-36 exercised the sea cocks twice a month and also and an auto parts store fabricate a grease gun connection to go into the drain plug. i am having a refit yard to the work in march.....edwards boat yard. the guy that did the winterization said it would only take 5 hours and could relaunch that day. edwards wants a minimum of 3 weeks to let the epoxy cure. i tend to believe a refit yard. but my god, i would never attempt to do that in the water.... i would be so skittish. these sea cocks are original to the boat so it was bound to happen i guess.

[David Kane]

I've had a similar bad experience to yours, Aaron, with my engines. Having bought my 1975 tri-cabin last fall, I asked that the marina mechanic go over the engines to make sure they were OK. After getting a clean bill of health from the mechanic in May, the engines held up for a month, then started going to pot in mid-June. I've waxed on in other threads about the troubles, but bottom line is I ended up rebuilding both engines, finishing up just last week, in mid-October. I found a good auto mechanic that was recommended to me by a fellow dockmate. He did a lot of the work on my starboard engine while I watched and helped. Then, when I did the port engine, I did the lion's share of the work and brought him in to do the final work, again with me present and participating. Most of my new found boating buddies have had these kind of experiences with marina mechanics, and as they, now I, and I'm sure you will also, have learned through being burned to do as much of the work on our boats ourselves as we can. I've found many mechanics and suppliers locally willing to give me good advise, which I've followed with sucessful results. The knowledge is certainly out there to do a good job, but for what may be a variety of reasons, the paid professionals leave much to be desired.

[Safari]

I noticed on that type of seacock, the nut on the other side of the handle must be loosened first, then a slight tap with a wrench on the end in order to move the handle. I usually snug the nut when I'm done - don't need PB Blaster. I believe the handle is replaceable; you may not need new valves. I think a call to John at MarineTech may be in order......

[aaronbocknek]

what the mechanic broke off was the "T" nut that allowed the ball to rotate using the taller slimmer handle. the lock nut, not sure what it is called, is the thing that sheared off. the mechanic swore that he did not use a wrench to twist it.... yeah, like i believe that. i spoke with the owner of a beautiful grand banks 42 that is in edwards boat yard and he swears by their work. they also build custom bay built boats so thay have been doing this for decades. i was listening to one of the yard masters telling one of the dock hands working on the grand banks, "guys, you need to be more careful around the gel coat of this boat. now go back over it with wax and make sure it is correct because i will be watching you." and yes, the grand banks is just as pristine as the day it was brought over. i like the way they work.... as far as the sea cocks go, my dad replaced all of the ones on the f-36 we had about 5 years ago, 'just because'. for me, while expensive, it is a safety issue.

[willietrojan]

That's surprising, I have used Terri a few times back in 2003/04 and he did a great job. I guess his business has gotten bigger and now the work suffers. Do you keep your boat at Chesapeake Yachting Center?


Also I think the Edwards sold that marina a few year's ago, because I know he was trying to sell it when I stayed there.

[aaronbocknek]

terry is a good guy and i think he feels bad about this but from what i gather from him, it was my responsibility to make sure the sea cock opened and closed, which i do not dispute. in my honest opinion though, i believe the guy that did the survey in sept should have discovered this as well. why he didn't is beyond me. but thats another battle. anyway, terry martin has from what i gather some of the best mechanics in middle river. i just believe that the one working on my vessel was trying to get the job done fast and was not thinking. i keep my f-32 at parkside marina on edwards lane in middle river. anyone is free to drop by and visit when i am there. i had a new cockpit canopy made by ss canvas and scott did a spectacular job. it looks so great and well worth the bucks. i chatted with him on 8 october, on 9 october he measured and mad a pattern and had the cover up yesterday. not bad. he even made reinforcements around the areas where the railing was touching the canvas so not to over stress it. i will post pics of it asap, and i HIGHLY recommend him for any one's canvas work. as far as the window goes i had jeff from weaver's marina come out and look at the broken window. they can fix it, but it has to be at their yard so he can keep an eye on things. in the meantime, i will try to make the area as weather proof as possible and hope for the best. while it is there i might as well have them do the seacocks/bottom paint and other odds and ends. at least i have all winter to think about it and save for this.

[LSP]

Weavers? .....are they located on Back River? Did he happen to give you a guestament on the cost of the window?

[prowlersfish]

Arron , replaceing the seacocks is not that hard ,I do wonder about 3 weeks to let the epoxy dry . why do they need to use expoy at all ?

Paul

[aaronbocknek]

hi LSP. yes, it's weavers in back river on riverside drive. jeff came down to the marina (parkside) yesterday and met with me to discuss the issue. he said that yes it can be fixed, but, since i am already winterized, i have to wait until sprin to bring the boat around. (hopefully i can find them by reading some charts). anyway, he wants it at their yard so he can keep an eye on things and follow up with his men to make sure everything is cleaned up and put back in order. i was going to have their onan guy travel to me in the spring for the gen set rehab, so this way it's all done on site. he will be getting back to me later this week with some prices. he assures me that the window in it's current state will not leak over the winter since the spider web cracks are actually in between the two panes of safety glass. what i did is tape over the damage with packing tape and put a sheet of lexan next to the glass on the inside to give some support.

[duchess]

looking at your post i think what he may be referring to to is epoxying in new double up blocks inside the hull for the new sea cocks this is actually the proper way to do the job as the old blocks are probably the original plywood blocks. I had all of my sea coks out of the boat last winter for cleaning and inspection and in the spring i replaced all of the double up blocks one of which had become a little spongy. all of the seacoks were ok however with no signs of pink deterioration. by the way if your seacocks are original they are obsolete and there are no parts available for rebuilding them from the manufacturer.

[aaronbocknek]

you are spot on duchess---- bill said that because of the age of the boat, the top interior half of the sea cock would probably not come off with out breaking the seal to the scoop/strainer in the thru hull. what they do is take the ENTIRE unit out, use what they can, i.e. the scoop strainer, and redo the double up block with a new composite ''wood'' doubler that does not rot but has a very high strength to weight ratio. then the new interior unit is mounted, bolted, and rebonded and regrounded. he came over yesterday and looked at them and said that the sea cocks are circa 1976 and are due for replacement anyway. to be honest, i would rather be safer than sunk. expensive yes. safer you bet. maybe the mechanic breaking the thing was a blessing in disguise. hell, i have my partner and dog to think about when we are underway as well as friends and family. dad said i need to get some thru hull plugs and secure them near every single seacock as well as diagram where every one is.... i remember him doing this when we got our first boat in 1969. but back to edwards boat yard and the 'layup' time. he just wants to make sure the epoxy is setting up correctly and i do not blame him for that. normally it's a week or so, but since it will be chilly in march, the set up time is longer. like i said, hell, while she is out i might as well get the bottom painted and the zincs replaced. what do you think?
aaron

[duchess]

Your on the right track now. Get your old long johns on in march and get the bottom sanded and ready for paint. I had my bottom redone 3 years ago by an excellant guy here in jersey sandblasted and barrier coated then 3 coats of multiyear interlx 8000 in all but its done and no more hassles. I try to get all i can done in March under the cover.

[Danny Bailey]

The original Groco seacocks Trojan used were inferior base material for use in salt water and if they have lasted since 1976, you got excellent service out of them. Take them all out, engine intakes, A/C intakes, generator intakes, holding tank discharge....where ever they are on your Trojan , take them out and throw them as far as you can in the creek. Don't despair about the handle being broken off one, be thankful something made you change them before they sank your boat!! Do not scrimp on the replacements. Use brand name bronze seacocks with stainless steel balls and shafts....not industrial bronze ball valves. You'll be glad you did. By the way, Trojans have solid fiberglass bottoms, and there is no reason to use epoxy when replacing a seacock. All you need is a backer of teak, mahogony or treated plywood and some 3M 5200 or Sikaflex caulking.