Reconsidering

[todd brinkerhoff]

Are these boats displacement or planing hulls. It has a huge keel, which leads to believe displacement, which you would need some ballast?

[captainmaniac]

I wish you luck, and want to know what the final results are!

My guts : it will end up costing more in the $20K range (not quite the 10x Prowler says, but still the typical 2-3x planned...). GlenL has been selling plans for years (heck - decades). Note - they sell PLANS, not BOATS - they know what it really costs to build a boat, and don't want to get in to that business (photocopying a plan is way cheaper!).

If you can do EVERYTHING yourself and not ever need to hire anyone else, you can keep you costs to 'materials' (if you assume the hundreds of hours you will spend on the boat are not worth anything), but odds are sooner or later you will have to consult or hire a pro for something.

The other factor to consider (and people hate when I bring this one up) - are you comfortable with risking your life, and the lives of anyone you bring aboard, on your boat construction skills and capabilities? People's lives will depend on what you build - do you know what you are doing well enough to keep them alive?

Sorry for that last shot - but some people just don't get it. When my father's old '69 was falling apart with rot, a guy on welfare wanted to buy it and figured by replacing a few boards and doing some caulking it would be good to go. Refused to sell the boat to him, as I didn't want the drowning death of his wife and 3 kids (5 yrs old and less) on my conscience. If you aren't prepared to do the job right, don't do it at all....

[RWS]

No spreadsheet is needed, an adding machine and legal pad will work.

Reality numbers are important.

They will separate dreams from reality.

Without real numbers, you may wake up in the middle of the dream, have reality bite your ass and end up with two partial boats, neither of which have any value at all.

If it was that easy and that cheap, wouldn't more people be doing it?

Considerations worthy of thought.

RWS

[todd brinkerhoff]

What's your budget? RWS posted at 31 Bert with gassers for 19k that would be a good offshore tuna boat.

[todd brinkerhoff]

Sorry. It was a 33 Bertie. It's still 19K. Here's the link...

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1985/Be ... _H3xlgg_cs

[CrunchyBacon]

@ prowlerfish: I'm gonna keep you around for a while. You bring up alot of good points. I thought about props all night and decided I'm gonna stick with my little one. It should be able to cruise at 10+ knots. And with only 1 engine running off 200 gallons I should be able to cruise/troll all day.

@ captainmaniac: I feel comfortable enough to tackle this project slow and steady. Strength and stability will be constantly evaluated and safety is of course highest priority. I'm a lvl 3 certified Chrysler tech at the moment and people risk there lives every day in the jobs I've already done. And I believe I will be able to tackle everything myself. I will just have to see how that goes. Thanks

@RWS: I feel like I have a huge advantage being as I have the donor boat. And I'm not saying it will be easy at all. It will consume 1000-2000 man hrs in labor. I think that's the main factor in boat costs.

@Todd Brinkerhoff: My budget sucks and so does my credit. I'm already committed and invested in my f-31. I figure I can put $150-300 per week into this new project and I won't have to come up with so much at one time.

Thanks everyone for the replies and keep em coming

[todd brinkerhoff]

I guess this question is for all of the contributors to this thread....How is this Down Easter design with its flat bottom better offshore than the original boat? I know I've seen the crab style boats on wicked tuna and such, but aren't those heavy steel boats with heavy diesel engines, a huge prop, and lots of ballast? I can't figure how this wooden boat with a flat hull and tiny prop and motor are more "seaworthy" than the F 31.

Please explain so I can learn.

[CrunchyBacon]

The boats from the series "Wicked Tuna" are fiberglass and wood as well as fiberglass over wood. These boats can handle very rough seas and are what I believe to be full displacement hulls. They are very efficient and slow going. 200-300 gallons fuel and only one engine. Each boat has a maximum hull speed regardless of motor, trans or prop. I learned a lot from googling full displacement hulls. I'm not looking for speed or planing out. I'm looking to hold cargo and tuna.

[CrunchyBacon]

 RE: What is a displacement hull?

"The two main types of hulls for trawlers are the full displacement and the semi-displacement. An example of the semi-displacement hull is the Grand Banks line of trawlers and the Kadey Krogen 42 is an example of the full displacement hull. The difference between the two hulls can be simplified by stating that the semi-displacement hull is designed, that with enough horsepower it is able to go faster than hull speed, while the full displacement hull can't exceed hull speed....
An advantage of the full displacement hull is that the weight of all the equipment, food, beverages, fuel and other material carried on board on a long cruise won't greatly affect the performance of the boat since the design of the boat is to stay at or under hull speed and thus the extra weight won't be a great factor in performance. In a planing hull or even a semi-displacement hull, the opposite is true, as it takes a lot more horsepower and fuel to achieve planing speed if you increase the weight. 
Basically, if you want longer range and more blue water performance go with the displacement hull boats, if you do more coastal cruising and need more speed then look at the semi-displacement boats."

Taken from another site.

[todd brinkerhoff]

So what characteristic is the boat you're building?

[prowlersfish]

I guess this question is for all of the contributors to this thread....How is this Down Easter design with its flat bottom better offshore than the original boat? I know I've seen the crab style boats on wicked tuna and such, but aren't those heavy steel boats with heavy diesel engines, a huge prop, and lots of ballast? I can't figure how this wooden boat with a flat hull and tiny prop and motor are more "seaworthy" than the F 31.

Please explain so I can learn.

Sharper bow entry and the large keel and rudder . Easy to push hull art lower speeds . The small prop will however lose the advantage of a large rudder some what . And with the large keel the small prop will not have a good clean water flow , a lot power/ fuel will get wasted . Reverse will very ineffective at best (keel will block thrust ) as to the flat stern gives it the ability to run at speed with the correct power /drive train .BTW Most your custom Carolina charter boats have a very sharp bow entry and flat sterns . And most are epoxy/glass encapsulated wood ( no home depot lumber ) Top notch boat building stuff $$$ . FWIW the F31 is pretty flat at the stern .

Crunchy , What are your goals ? Pleasure Sport fishing for tuna or game fish ? A few times a year ?, most every weekend ? Chartering ? Commercial fishing to resell your catch ?(you said something about a large hold for fish )

[todd brinkerhoff]

Crunchy,

Do you have a place to build the boat? I am assuming as the boat grows and gets heavier you will need a lift system of some sort.

A great place for marine stuff is Jamestown Distributors. They will have almost everything you need, from Bronze screws to Fiberglassing supplies. They are great people too. If you spend the $50.00 for their gold membership, you get free shipping, which pays for itself in the first shipment of paint (hazmat material and very costly to ship). I will tell you that I have spent almost $1000 in bronze screws. They are not cheap, and you will need 10's of 1000s of them. And I spent almost $1000 in hull paint (4 coats of barrier coat, and 3 coats of bottom paint). Also, since you are going with wood, become friends with Smith's CPES (Clear Penetrating Epoxy System). There is not a piece of wood on my wooden boat that has not been primed (or in some cases soaked) in CPES. The stuff is fantastic. Expensive, but fantastic. It will absorb into your wood and create a breathable barrier and is great for adhesion of paint or caulk. Also, in the areas that are below the waterline, I would highly recommend using 3M 5200 for any wood to wood adhesion. Just make sure you fit the peices prior to using the product. It is a PERMANENT caulk. For fiberglassing, I am a big fan of the West's system, as they make it pretty easy to measure and mix with their pump system.

Additionally, and again, as I said before, everything here is opinion and use the advise you want... BUT, I will 100% agree with prowlerfish on the drivetrain issues. I would figure out what they recommend for prop size (which will be significantly bigger than what you have) and reconfigure your gearbox ratio based on your motor and a much bigger prop. If you are going to spend 1500-2000 man hours doing this, you might as well do it right.

I'm excited to see the pictures and build though.

[CrunchyBacon]

@ prowlerfish: Sorry for the long delay. Lots of personal and business stuff going on. But to answer your question of what my main uses or goals will be. I want to be able to do it all. Cruise/troll all day for commercial fish. Pleasure during off seasons. Fun with friends. Etc, etc. And yes a hold large enough to store a giant tuna if I ever manage to catch one. Also a few posts ago you mentioned a reduction gear and I managed to find a completely rebuilt 1.99:1 velvet drive for a $1000. Just in case I end up having to go that route. What size prop do i currently have?

@ Todd Brinkerhoff: The boat I'm building is what I believe to be a full displacement hull. I did manage to speak with Glen-l technical support and they said that they don't have a recommendation of prop or rudder. They asked more about the motor and said that as long as I'm at least 120shp I'll be just fine. As far as build location goes I have a very large yard and driveway. I am also very familiar with Jamestown Distributers. I did alot of restoration work on a 1972 20 ft Mako.

My plan right now is to start building. Do as much as I can without tearing into my trojan until I have to. I'd rather have a functional boat than a non functional one for 2 years. I think as the build comes along I may find good deals pop up.

[Cmount]

I say GO FOR IT! If spending money on boats had to make sense (cents), I don't think any of us should have them. But if you really want to do it, go for it. Life is short so spend away, build what you want, and when the money does not make sense, you did what you wanted to do. It will cost

I wish you great success. I have way overspent on my f32...but I have what I want...finally after three years. I am now looking at another project on a 40 footer...and that does not make cents at all! But we enjoy this recreation so much, it is worth every penny we spend.

[CrunchyBacon]

Roughly what size prop x pitch do i currently have? Thanks