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Trojan's Unique Starting Parallel System
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:14 am
by RWS
Much has been discussed her regarding what I believe to be somewhat unique starting system.
I would like the Trojan BRAIN TRUST to chime in here and discuss the facts of the system.
As I understand it, my 1983 10 meter has a solenoid in the battery compartment.
When one starter is engaged, that solenoid clicks on, connecting the port and starboard batteries together.
This makes perfect sense.
What I don't understand is the following:
- what happens when the 3 position EMERGENCY START toggle is ON ?
What is the DIODE that Robert Cushman has discussed - I have yet to find one on my vessel
And finally, (somewhat not related) why are the 12 volt side of our boats wired as they are with no seperate HOUSE and STARTING batteries. Seems that both main batteries share house duty together.
A clear, concise explanation here might be a good point of information for all of us.
BEST !
RWS
Re: Trojan's Unique Starting Parallel System
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:23 am
by prowlersfish
Some help here , I had put some work in to a response on this thread but MS edge decided to crash ( again ) I will try one more time .
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12423
Re: Trojan's Unique Starting Parallel System
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:42 am
by prowlersfish
I will try again . Its a really simple system . The diode is used so it works off both sides . And the 2 way switch is used so it can use either battery to activate the system in case one battery is too low . I will draw up a generic diagram later ( one should be in your owners manual )
The diode should be near your start switches . here are photos of the diode and a 12 meter (diesel) box breakers and relays will vary on the boat . box may be black and or smaller . Please see your manual .
Re: Trojan's Unique Starting Parallel System
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:55 am
by P-Dogg
As I understand it, my 1983 10 meter has a solenoid in the battery compartment.
As does my tricabin.
what happens when the 3 position EMERGENCY START toggle is ON ?
Both engine batteries are paralleled. Useful in case, for example, you need to transmit a mayday and need the maximum possible power from you batteries.
What is the DIODE that Robert Cushman has discussed - I have yet to find one on my vessel
Without these TWO diodes, either ignition switch would start both engines at once. My electrical schematic says that they are located in the instrument panel, and one wire runs to the solenoid. They are wired as: Ignition switch>diode>wire to solenoid<diode<other ignition switch.
Think about it -- with no diodes and a wire to the coil on the solenoid from each ignition switch, the "start" signal travels from one ignition switch, down to the solenoid coil, then back up to the other "start" switch.
Re: Trojan's Unique Starting Parallel System
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:56 am
by P-Dogg
Yeah, what Prowlersfish said while I was typing!
Re: Trojan's Unique Starting Parallel System
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:21 am
by prowlersfish
As far as the 3 way switch . It is a momentary switch that you need to hold . When released it off . When you push and hold it one way it activates the relay using 1 battery . When you push and hold it the other way it uses the other battery . The reason for this is if you have a low or dead battery there will not be enough power to activate the relay/solenoid so you then use the battery with good power by using the other switch position .
As far as the house power and batteries the way Trojan wired it ( I don't believe all are the same ) . It is a easy cost effective and simple way that works for 98% of us . Some that do long term on the hook may need or want to put in dedicated house batteries along with rewiring .
The house system is very similar to many other builders and with a generator it is a non-issue . Those without one or don't want to use theirs have to work around it . And there are many ways to do that .
Re: Trojan's Unique Starting Parallel System
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:26 am
by prowlersfish
It should be noted that the diode is really 2 diodes in 1 .
Re: Trojan's Unique Starting Parallel System
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:20 pm
by prowlersfish
Re: Trojan's Unique Starting Parallel System
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:51 am
by RWS
so...
When starting one side, when the circuit is closed to the starter solenoid, the diode senses this and closes the battery parallel solenoid, thereby tying the port & starboard batteries together.
That part i get
now let's try this:
1. if the port battery is dead, there is not enough power for the diode to close the battery parallel solenoid, holding the emergency toggle (one way or the other) will MANUALLY engage the battery paralleling solenoid
2. for example as discussed earlier, if the battery serving the VHF (or whatever) circuit is low, holding the emergency toggle may give you enough juice to run the radio
I have added a hot wire and battery on/off switch to tie the generator battery to the port battery.
This way the genny 12 volt system is stand alone independent, however I could tie those two together, if necessary.
Adding in the emergency toggle would, in effect then, tie all 3 together.
Question:
Are statements #1 and #2 above correct?
RWS
Re: Trojan's Unique Starting Parallel System
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:19 am
by prowlersfish
RWS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:51 am
so...
When starting one side, when the circuit is closed to the starter solenoid, the diode senses this and closes the battery parallel solenoid, thereby tying the port & starboard batteries together.
That part i get
now let's try this:
1. if the port battery is dead, there is not enough power for the diode to close the battery parallel solenoid, holding the emergency toggle (one way or the other) will MANUALLY engage the battery paralleling solenoid
2. for example as discussed earlier, if the battery serving the VHF (or whatever) circuit is low, holding the emergency toggle may give you enough juice to run the radio
I have added a hot wire and battery on/off switch to tie the generator battery to the port battery.
This way the genny 12 volt system is stand alone independent, however I could tie those two together, if necessary.
Adding in the emergency toggle would, in effect then, tie all 3 together.
Question:
Are statements #1 and #2 above correct?
RWS
1. Yes true one way on the switch will work the other will not as one battery is dead and does not have the power needed to active the solenoid .
2. Again yes , solenoid is made for 85 Amp constant use , and likely more interment amps (starting ) even though no rating .
And yes with the switch on from gen to port using the system will tie all 3 together . I would also have a switch between port and starboard batteries if needed if you do not already .
Blue sea makes system that you can leave on to remotely combine the batteries .
Back to the vhf I have 2 on the fly one on the port battery the other on starboard .
Blue sea offers this so you can remotely switch . No power draw after switching
https://www.bluesea.com/products/catego ... -Solenoids
you could change out for a constant duty solenoid like this also But it takes almost amps to work
https://www.bluesea.com/products/9012/L ... 4V_DC_250A