AARON'S TRI CABIN QUESTIONS..

[aaronbocknek]

hey gang, well, it's been almost a week since i've have my tri cabin in my posession and i am in the midst of doing a few trouble shooting things. i have a few questions that i hope might be answered here regarding
1. electrical--this is the panel w/ 3 lights per side.
2. a goofy leak
3. holding tank things (yuck)
4. water pressure problems

1. on my electrical panel, the SHORE side that registers 'port' the light says i have an 'open neutral' while the 'starboard' side says 'open ground'. when i flip from shore to gen, the indicator lights register normal. i went through every outlet on the boat yesterday and my tester shows 'correct'. could this gremlin be on the panel side as opposed to the outlets? i'm totally stumped on this.

2. i have the oddest leak that is over the galley counter closest to the sofa. it's not coming from the windows as it is dead center. i've looked at the removable roof hatch, and the bedding 'appears' to be intact. could the water be migrating into the cabin somewhere from this access panel?

3. i dont know what the previous owners were thinking, but i have the most unique holding tank system ever invented. if rube goldberg could have thought of this, he would have. the aft head has a holding tank that is mounted two feet above and aft of the port engine, while the second one is in the hot water heater area forward of the salon near the 3 steps that go into the forward cabin and head. in order to empty the tank, one must use a whale pump to suck the nasty stuff from the aft tank forward into the forward tank then all the sewage can be pumped out from one deck plate. my question is this. is it possible to eliminate the aft tank all together and have the sweage hose go from aft to forward thus eliminating the 'above the toilet' issue of back pressure? is it unusual for a tri cabin to have two holding tanks?

4. when using the onboard belt driven (hate those pumps) fresh water pump, i get not only a tremendous banging sound of air in the lines, but the pump never seems to want to pressurize. i removed the aft bunk access panel and discoverd that the pex pipe that goes from the shore hookup to the T connector for the watersystem is vibrating and knocking against the fuel fill line. not just vibrating, but banging against it, very loud indeed. this could weaken the hookup from the shore connector to the pipe could it not? when i hooked up the dockside waterhose, the vibration lessened but again, the pump never really pressurized. the outside water hose also looked to have collapsed slightly. is it possible that the check valve in the shore hookup is bad and the system is sucking in air from outside when running on the fresh water pump? i also notice that when i use the water pump, the outside connection drips constantly where you attach the hose. the same held true when i filled the tank yesterday. water flowed out of this area when the tank got full.

thanks for the input.

aaron in baltimore

[prowlersfish]

) Mine have never worked right or I don't under stand them

2) time for capt Tolley's The leak could be coming from a long distance away from where it shows up , try a water hose in different areas , but remember it may take a long time for the water to get from point a to point b

3) why not add a deck fitting for pump out ?

4 ) the check valve maybe leaking but thats not the banging , you can add a accumulator or in stall a smart pump you should secure the line so it won't move as much .

also make sure there is no air in the system by opening every faucet

5) welcome to the new boat bugs

[aaronbocknek]

) Mine have never worked right or I don't under stand them

2) time for capt Tolley's The leak could be coming from a long distance away from where it shows up , try a water hose in different areas , but remember it may take a long time for the water to get from point a to point b

3) why not add a deck fitting for pump out ?

4 ) the check valve maybe leaking but thats not the banging , you can add a accumulator or in stall a smart pump you should secure the line so it won't move as much .

also make sure there is no air in the system by opening every faucet

5) welcome to the new boat bugs

will do the capt tollys sometime soon.
the panel issue has my dad really concerned.
there are two deck fittings for the holding tanks. one for each tank as well as an over board for both.
faucts were open to evacuate air but the pump shut off and breaker tripped after 10 minutes. i'd prefer the smart pump addition for spring.
not sure why that pipe from deck fill to pump is vibrating though. like i said, the pump does not want to pressurize. smart pump would eliminate the need for an accumulator tank would it not?

new boat bugs.... yippie... keeps me busy when i'm not flying.

[prowlersfish]

No accumulator tank needed with the smart pump

If the outlets check out maybe the montor is no good ? mine is a pos IMO

[aaronbocknek]

No accumulator tank needed with the smart pump

If the outlets check out maybe the montor is no good ? mine is a pos IMO

what? i get the accum. tank thing, but what's the other sentence....

[prowlersfish]

Shore power pannel lights

[davidsmith]

Aaron, I believe your panel is telling you that you have an issue with your incoming shore power wiring. The problem could be the dock power wiring,shore power cable or the wiring from your shore power outlet to your panel. Verify that your neutral and your grounds are connected properly and they have good connections. If there is a problem with your ground/neutral you could get shocked from any appliances you have pluged in to your outlets. The generator would show the same issue if the wiring from it to the panel was faulty or the panel itself was faulty. You can buy a simple polarity tester that plugs into outlets from Lowes/Homedepot that might help the troubleshooting. Good luck

[rbcool]

WOW Aaron!! I've had the exact same problems, except for the tank issue.

1) shore polarity lights Never have worked right. All my outlets are fine and I had a Master electrician check out my shore box. I'm not even gonna think about it again.
2) I had 2 weird leaks; 0ne from the horn, which I caulked. The other is right over my counter top : it's the TV antenna leaking during heavy rains then running down 4 feet till it comes through

3) I have one huge holding tank, 45gal, vaccum pulls from aft to forward.

4) 3 days after I got the boat that POS pump your talking about exploded and besides leaking it caused the connection from the "city water" to come apart right at the bed level. My wife started screaming "THE BOAT IS SINKING AND THE BED IS SOAKING WET !!!!!!!
I put in a smart pump, $320, and reconnected the water line making sure I secured the hose wherever it was needed.

These are pretty much the only issues we've had.

I am having an issue with the fridge under the stove top, not very cold

[aaronbocknek]

Aaron, I believe your panel is telling you that you have an issue with your incoming shore power wiring. The problem could be the dock power wiring,shore power cable or the wiring from your shore power outlet to your panel. Verify that your neutral and your grounds are connected properly and they have good connections. If there is a problem with your ground/neutral you could get shocked from any appliances you have pluged in to your outlets. The generator would show the same issue if the wiring from it to the panel was faulty or the panel itself was faulty. You can buy a simple polarity tester that plugs into outlets from Lowes/Homedepot that might help the troubleshooting. Good luck

i used phil's polarity tester yesterday and went through the entire boat, outlet by outlet and it showed 'CORRECT' (two yellow lights on). i've used appliances from the outlets and no shock. the OPEN GROUND/OPEN NEUTRAL showed at both the marina where i bought her, and my home marina. the shore power cords are brand new. the port boatside socket is brand new, as of last week (the old one looked like an electrical disaster waiting to happen. the starboard boatside innards were replaced in 2005 but i noticed that the small ground metal strip is not attached to anything. i believe that this is because i have a hubell stainless steel exterior and a marinco male plug inside. i tried to do that type of retrofit last week but realized that the ground was not attaching to anything so i replaced the entire socket, making doubly sure that the ground went to the ground, positive to the positive and neutral to neutral. i'm going to wait until it's a little warmer before retrofitting the starboard unit. now, when the genset is running, i get the 'double lights' on that indicate everything is normal.

[aaronbocknek]

WOW Aaron!! I've had the exact same problems, except for the tank issue.

1) shore polarity lights Never have worked right. All my outlets are fine and I had a Master electrician check out my shore box. I'm not even gonna think about it again.
2) I had 2 weird leaks; 0ne from the horn, which I caulked. The other is right over my counter top : it's the TV antenna leaking during heavy rains then running down 4 feet till it comes through

3) I have one huge holding tank, 45gal, vaccum pulls from aft to forward.

4) 3 days after I got the boat that POS pump your talking about exploded and besides leaking it caused the connection from the "city water" to come apart right at the bed level. My wife started screaming "THE BOAT IS SINKING AND THE BED IS SOAKING WET !!!!!!!
I put in a smart pump, $320, and reconnected the water line making sure I secured the hose wherever it was needed.

These are pretty much the only issues we've had.

I am having an issue with the fridge under the stove top, not very cold

phil has an hvac guy that can work on your under counter fridge if you want. he would rather repair than replace.

i'm going to replace the old belt driven pump after the winter layup. what really concerns me is the amount of vibration i am getting from the shore to main pex pipe. i know that that amount of vibration will cause it to fail and break apart.

nice to see i'm not the only one with a goofy leak, but hey, it's over the counter and i can live with that for now.

john, my mechanic, and i are going to try to figure out something with this holding tank issue. there has to be an easier way to do it. i do not have the vaccu flush system and for now, i see no need to install one. first things first, although i'd love to knock everything out at once.

[aaronbocknek]

phil and i took maccabee down to the tri cabin today for his first time. after the initial ''what the hell is this? it's too big!!'' from the dock, we lifted him onto the back deck and he promptly did the 'great loop' around the deck. okay, he's surefooted enough to do that. he even sat down on the forward seat area. he did his grand tour of the cabins and finally settled in on the salon sofa. he also tested out the bridge seating areas. so far, so good.

[k9th]

Hi Aaron - glad you're finding some of the small problems that can drive you crazy and getting them fixed.

If I am reading your post correctly, you are using the water pump while hooked to dock-side water - is that correct?

When I am hooked to dock-side water, I never turn the water pump switch on since it is not needed. I also don't fill the water tanks unless I plan to drop the hook somewhere.

As for the pump out, both of my heads are hooked to the vacu-flush system which has a single holding tank located right next to the water heater just aft of the forward head under the salon floor. I think I would either put in a separate pump out for the aft tank or take the aft tank out and connect the aft head to the forward holding tank. I wouldn't like having to pump waste from one tank to another.

Have you taken any more photos you can post?

[aaronbocknek]

Hi Aaron - glad you're finding some of the small problems that can drive you crazy and getting them fixed.

If I am reading your post correctly, you are using the water pump while hooked to dock-side water - is that correct?

When I am hooked to dock-side water, I never turn the water pump switch on since it is not needed. I also don't fill the water tanks unless I plan to drop the hook somewhere.

As for the pump out, both of my heads are hooked to the vacu-flush system which has a single holding tank located right next to the water heater just aft of the forward head under the salon floor. I think I would either put in a separate pump out for the aft tank or take the aft tank out and connect the aft head to the forward holding tank. I wouldn't like having to pump waste from one tank to another.

Have you taken any more photos you can post?

hey tim, thanks for the response. the dockside hose is connected to the outlet on the boat but the water is not turned on. i'm goofy in that i normally like to use the onboard pump and water tank since it keeps the tank 'fresh' and the pump working. the worst thing one can do is 'forget' to use something and have it break down due to lack of use. when i was running the pump and the water hose was not connected outside, i noticed a steady stream of water coming from the hookup area. when i attached the hose (not turned on from the dock) the hose would collapse slightly as the pump was running like it was trying to suck air from the outside. i believe this is where the problem is. a bad checkvalve on the boatside hookup. also, these belt driven pumps are great until they start to break down. looks like i will be installing a smart pump in the spring and just to be on the safe side, get rid of the pex from the hookup to the main. this can also be a weak link in the chain.

as for the holding tank, there are actually two deck pump outs. one for the aft tank and one for the forward tank but you can choose to use only the one for the forward tank if you do the waste transfer. like i said, this is the biggest rube set up i've ever seen. i'm going to consult with my mechanic and see what we can come up with. at some point, i will probably add the vacu-flush system, but for now, as money is a little tight, i think this can wait a while. phil just laughs at me because he thinks i'm trying to do 5 years of renovations in a week..... somehow, he might be right. i just need to be patient and take it one thing at a time. after all, she will be with us for a good long time.

[RWS]

I will NEVER buy another Shurflow smart pump again.

NEVER!

Try doing a google and see the success rate of this POS.

The pump itself seems to be fine, the problem has been the electronics, poor quality connections and a device that has no adjustment - mine would run continously, overheat and lose pressure.

Someone at the boatered forum modified thier unit to use a simple hardware store well pump pressure switch. You cannot mount it in th eengine room if you have gas engines.

I did this and got smart.

I added a water pressure guage to the pump.

That 's what I used to adjust the settings on the pump switch and now I can see the pressure reading and exactly what the cut in/cut out pressure is.

Simple and effective.

Also - I added an accumulator 8 years ago. Makes a nice difference, especially when using the shower or washdown hose.

RWS

[k9th]

Hi Aaron - glad you're finding some of the small problems that can drive you crazy and getting them fixed.

If I am reading your post correctly, you are using the water pump while hooked to dock-side water - is that correct?

When I am hooked to dock-side water, I never turn the water pump switch on since it is not needed. I also don't fill the water tanks unless I plan to drop the hook somewhere.

As for the pump out, both of my heads are hooked to the vacu-flush system which has a single holding tank located right next to the water heater just aft of the forward head under the salon floor. I think I would either put in a separate pump out for the aft tank or take the aft tank out and connect the aft head to the forward holding tank. I wouldn't like having to pump waste from one tank to another.

Have you taken any more photos you can post?

hey tim, thanks for the response. the dockside hose is connected to the outlet on the boat but the water is not turned on. i'm goofy in that i normally like to use the onboard pump and water tank since it keeps the tank 'fresh' and the pump working. the worst thing one can do is 'forget' to use something and have it break down due to lack of use. when i was running the pump and the water hose was not connected outside, i noticed a steady stream of water coming from the hookup area. when i attached the hose (not turned on from the dock) the hose would collapse slightly as the pump was running like it was trying to suck air from the outside. i believe this is where the problem is. a bad checkvalve on the boatside hookup. also, these belt driven pumps are great until they start to break down. looks like i will be installing a smart pump in the spring and just to be on the safe side, get rid of the pex from the hookup to the main. this can also be a weak link in the chain.

as for the holding tank, there are actually two deck pump outs. one for the aft tank and one for the forward tank but you can choose to use only the one for the forward tank if you do the waste transfer. like i said, this is the biggest rube set up i've ever seen. i'm going to consult with my mechanic and see what we can come up with. at some point, i will probably add the vacu-flush system, but for now, as money is a little tight, i think this can wait a while. phil just laughs at me because he thinks i'm trying to do 5 years of renovations in a week..... somehow, he might be right. i just need to be patient and take it one thing at a time. after all, she will be with us for a good long time.

That makes better sense to me now about the dock-side water. Sounds like you're sucking air for sure.

At least your boat is in the water for the winter and you can get to it and work on it. I am going to the boat yard today where mine is stored and get all of our seasonal items off before they shrink wrap if for the winter. Won't even see her again till April .