BILGE PUMPS

larglo · Post by **larglo** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:13 pm

Hi again,

Spring is on the way, have lots planned and another question.

I have the F25 and when I bought it, it had a 500 gph pump in front and a 500 gph in the stern. Mt son bought me a 1100 gph pump which I now installed in the front. The other day when I was at the boat I turned on the front pump and water started flowing, I then went to the stern, opened the floor hatch and there was no water there.
I was wondering if the two areas were open to each other and all the water had accumulated in the front section? If so, would the single 1100 in the front be all that would be required. But perhaps the 500 gph be nice as a backup pump?

Are the front and rear bilge areas separated from each other, and both pumps be required?

Any thoughts.

Thanks,

Larry

alexander38 · Post by **alexander38** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:24 pm

Larry I'd put that bigger pump in the aft with the engines after all that's where the big leaks start with sea-cock shaft and rudder seals. Imo

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:44 pm

Hi Larry,

The bilge is open front to back. They do sit heavy in the front at the dock which is why your finding water there. When under way, the water will run to the back so it's important to have a good pump there as well.

rbcool · Post by **rbcool** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:05 pm

+1 on Tony

I'll also have to add..... WHERE the hell is the water coming from??? You should only have one shaft log dripping a few drops a minute

Ron

larglo · Post by **larglo** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:46 pm

That is some great info. I was wondering also where the water was coming from, and after a lot of thought, came up with this. Late last year I installed a a/c in the cabin. To get rid of the heat I cut an 8" hole right in front of the bow and installed a 4" bilge exhaust blower that came on with the a/c, thus fixing the heat problem.
To cover the hole, I installed a inspection hatch. It was late in the year, so never got around to sealing it. The boat is stern in, in the slip and this provides rain to hit the bow, and it has rained a lot lately. I had the bow pump set on "Auto", so I know the 3-way switch doesn't work. It had been since last fall, so not much water had come in in that length of time. But from now on I'll flip the switch to manual just to check each time I go to the boat.

This spring I'll remove the hatch and seal it good. One screw even fell into the rode area and never put it in, so will fix that too.

I'll soon move to an open slip, so better get this stuff fixed as soon as I can.

I'm going to rewire the two pumps and make sure they both work correctly in "Auto" "OFF" and "MANUAL"

Thanks very much,

Larry

captainmaniac · Post by **captainmaniac** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:32 pm

As posted by others here, the boat will sit bow low when not moving so that's why there is water up forward and not in back.

Correction though on things being open between bow and stern -- they are *supposed to be open*... but might not actually be. Ribs and the firewall, running across the hull, are obstacles to water flowing forward and back. For things to work right, the ribs and firewall should have 'limber holes' in them right along the keel, allowing the water to flow through (and that's how Trojan made the boat). If a previous owner did a 'repair' and blocked these holes, or if they are blocked with bilge crud, you can have a problem with the flow. In short, make sure they are clear.

Which pump should be the powerful one ... you can argue it either way. If the boat is docked, at anchor, idling along, or dead in the water, the bow will naturally want to sit lower. If the boat will spend most of its time at the dock the heavier pump forward will protect it better in the event something pops when nobody is around. If it will spend a good chunk of its time at speed or offshore, then putting the big one aft will help out if something blows while underway. Given my usage, I would have the bigger pump up forward, as the aft pump does nothing for me unless I am up on plane (or have TONS of water in there already). If something pops while under way I would be able to tell pretty quick (the boat would behave differently with the weight), and would slow to idle to check out what's going on.

Where's the water coming from : you said you were stern in to your covered slip... In addition to the possibility of leaks around your deck fitting for the a/c, any chance rain on the deck can run back and into the cockpit? I know the majority of bilge water I get in is through either the vents on the side of my salon (with the right wind direction), or around the hatches on the aft deck (while the aft deck is scuppered overboard, the hatch framing is not, so whatever runs into a hatch seam goes into the bilge).

summer storm · Post by **summer storm** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:32 am

captainmaniac wrote: If something pops while under way I would be able to tell pretty quick (the boat would behave differently with the weight), and would slow to idle to check out what's going on.

That's why I would put the bigger pump foward, when you slow down the problem water will run foward to the bigger pump. IMO

ready123 · Post by **ready123** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:30 am

I agree with idea of the bigger pump forward on Trojans.

larglo · Post by **larglo** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:30 am

I tend to agree with Doug and the Capt. on leaving the bigger pump up forward.
Still unsure on how the water got there, but it was over a few months time, and in all that time I really never check the bow, for water assuming the pump was coming on automatically and getting the water out. I won't do that anymore.

I bought and installed one (forward) of two new 3-way switches for the bilge pumps last fall, but they were designed for pumps and a separate float switch installed. My pump is automatic and has 3 wires coming from it. I tried to wire so as to eliminate the need for the separate float switch, but guess it never worked as I thought it did. But perhaps the stern pump was working properly, I have never seen water from the stern hatch.

As soon as weather permits, I'll be able to rewire both the forward and stern pumps, making sure they function properly, but will check more closely from now on.

Thanks,

Larry

alexander38 · Post by **alexander38** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:45 am

All the rebuttals make since since, here's more to think on. Leave the 500 gph pumps in place. Add the 1100 gph pump in the engine space/room as a back up with a high water alarm , and place the float switch a few inches up from the keel area. And all most every power boat test bow down, and yes a new thur hull and wiring for the new pump.

prowlersfish · Post by **prowlersfish** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:15 pm

Mine is 1200 up from 2800 center 1500 in the rear . the front pump is the one that will do all the pumping at rest . its also the most expensive ( lovett ) the rear pump it the one to work first underway .
the center one is a back up if others failed or I have a major problem . each pump is on a different battery .

captainmaniac · Post by **captainmaniac** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:30 pm

Two more quickies ...

First point : water source. Any chance some of it came from condensate from the a/c? Can't remember if you plumbed it to drip out a thru hull or it just goes to the bilge.

Second point : float switches. Make sure you either get or use one with a protective cover or cage over it, or add a cover if yours doesn't currently have one.

In this example (no cover), something bouncing around in the bilge can get wedged under the switch (locking it 'on', and either draining your battery or burning out the pump) or on top of the switch (rendering it useless).

In this example (cover), the float mechanism is protected, can't be interefered with, and should work as designed as long as the holes in the cover don't get plugged.

alexander38 · Post by **alexander38** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:08 pm

ok I've got to ask a Trojan question. due they not have solid bulk heads separating the engine space from the rest of the boat ? My Carver ( not say it's better ) does and all hose's and wire runs are sealed with marine RTV so is it a sportfish/xepress thing ? or are the Tri's open through out with drain cutout to ?

rbcool · Post by **rbcool** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:08 pm

alexander38 wrote:ok I've got to ask a Trojan question. due they not have solid bulk heads separating the engine space from the rest of the boat ? My Carver ( not say it's better ) does and all hose's and wire runs are sealed with marine RTV so is it a sportfish/xepress thing ? or are the Tri's open through out with drain cutout to ?

Mine has a solid bulkhead between forward and engine room (basement

), a gnat couldn't get thru it

But the bulkhead aft seperating the mid and aft sections has a 8" wide x 2" high pass-thru at the bottom. This makes sense, because like you said Tony, the engine area is the Greatest Risk of water intrusion. So if a major problem occured in the engine room, the aft pump can pick up some slack. In the hundreds of boats I've been on, I've never seen the larger pump forward, doesn't make sense IMHO

I looked at my original spec sheet, and it shows the 500 forward

And since there are a few ******** on here that love to argue, while at my marina a few hours ago checking on my boat, I boarded a bud's f 26 and the smallest pump was forward. Just sayin

Ron

prowlersfish · Post by **prowlersfish** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:14 pm

I love to argue with know it alls

. most boats That come from factory with 2 pumps I found both are the same , if they still have the OE pumps ' Of coarse when a pump fails then the owner may replace it with a different size due to cost or grabing what ever the marina has on the shelf . many boats come with only one pump some forward and some aft

Bet that F26 has had more the 1 pump change