1985 Trojan - crusader 454's won't start hot

[mhandley]

The boat is new for me - if you saw my post about the bilge.

Actually, I had to run a cable up to the flybridge for a sonar transducer mounted on the transom.

What a pain in the neck!!

Holy cow, the engineers didn't think of this kind of service work!!!

Anyhow, my 454's don't want to start when hot. I thought the starter motor or coil was bad when it was only the port side motor. But when it happened on the starboard side, not I think I may have a grounding problem or something electrical.

Symptoms:
When hot - and I click to ignition, I can hear the solenoid (pretty new BTW) click. But the starter motor does NOTHING. No turns at all. Not slow crank, just dead. I don't think I can even hear the drive gear shoot out to the flywheel (assuming that's the way this starter works).

Port side: +12V from each of the two posts to ground.
Starboard side: -12V from each of the two posts to ground.

I assume the -12V because that motor turns the other direction. Is that correct.

Batteries both read 12V.

When in "no start mode" and I push ignition to the start position, the battery does not draw down at all, indicating either the batteries are a stiff 12V or the closed circuit is dead when hot.

After sitting with the hatch open for about 30 minutes, file the lead contacts on the battery posts, file the wire terminals, she started. And cranked RIGHT UP. And I mean the starter motor did not slow crank. She turned RIGHT over.

Is there a propensity for old frayed wires to ground out when hot on these starters?

The relatively new relay is suspicous to me. Although the old ones were REALLY old. Not a flashing red light, but noteworthy.

Any ideas/similar experiences?

[pk]

Have you tried to put the gear lever into neutral?

[Allen Sr]

Take and check your nuetral safety switches as a possibility. Also check your grounds at the block they may have some corrosion. Actually check all your connections closely. Wouldn't hurt to pull all of them and clean them.

[prowlersfish]

Batteries should be at 12.6 + volts 12 v is a low charge. You should not be -12 volts ( both rotation should be the same ) meter must be hooked up backward .

Check grounds , test the batteries make sure cables a good and the right size , no place for cheap auto cables

[mhandley]

Thanks on the 12.6. I'll get my digital on them.

But what do you make that once cool some, they crank right the hell up?

Also, something doesn't add up on the starter on the starbd. side:

1) When cold they crank right up
2) I know how to check a voltage, and fully understand polarity.

You guys are sure that the counter rotation isn't at play?

Neutral safety switches - where are they? in the consoles? I've got a bridge below and above. Or are they on the trans?

As a side note, I did not touch the gear shifter when in this condition, but they may be a little unstable, esp with heat,

[Heefus]

You guys have heat in Michigan????

x2 on the shift lever position. I have to wiggle mine, from the flybridge, sometimes.

[Big D]

If you hear your solenoid clicking, the nuetral safety switch is closed (in nuetral). Do a voltage drop test while cranking the engine. If there is no voltage drop at the battery when you crank the engine, it's indicating that there is no load; could be bad solenoid, starter, wiring, battery switch, bad connections. Check to see if you have good connections at the starter and look for a small square plastic block on the heavy cable terminal on the starter. If you see one, it's a fuse and may be failing.

Counter rotation has nothing to do with what's happening.

[mhandley]

Gentlemen,

Heefus is a genius.

Nuetral saftey switches were not made.

If anyone knows where the switches are, so I can throw relays for LED's at the helms, please advise.

[prowlersfish]

"Nuetral saftey switches were not made. " ??? I do not understand what your saying .
"If anyone knows where the switches are, so I can throw relays for LED's at the helms, please advise."
I don't under stand what you are trying to do .


Most N/safety switch's will be on the Trans.

[Big D]

Glad you found the issue but I must be missing something; if the neutral safety switch wasn't making (not in nuetral), what would be clicking as mentioned in your first post?

[mhandley]

The clicking noise was the starter relay in the batt compartment.

The switch is downline from the relay.

[rbcool]

I'm wondering what the amps are like on the battery. A battery can show 12.6 v but have crappy amps under load when warm. Do you have access to a real battery tester??

Ron