International Series Evoluton - Aft to Mid Cabin Discussion

[RWS]

This started in the AFT CABIN thread and got so detailled a comment that I thought it deserved it's own thread.

Actually there is a shocking amount of dead space under the deck of the 10 meter.

By moving the single fuel tank into 2 tanks at the gunnels, a tremendous amount of space becomes available and when you consider the beam of this vessel this comes out to be a massive amount of cubic feet volume.

Hence the Aft Cabin.

Now, consider this.

After developing the aft cabin and seeing low sales of this configuration, they did the following:

1. raised the entire cockpit deck from th estern to the helm approx 6"

2. raised the transom and gunnels about 4"

3. dropped the single fuel tank and put two into the gunnel area, like on th eaft cabin.

4. moved the engines and genny into that area where the aft cabin was formerly located.

5. added a Mid-Cabin berth into the space where the engine room was.

5. Dropped the curved stairway and completely revamped the entire cockpit, including the fwd berth, portlights, hatches, galley and flipped access to the electrical panel from below the helm to the inside of tha cabin.

6. At the same time they deleted all the curved surface design concepts, deleted most of the teak, deleted the engine room aft compartment and fwd compartment vacuum liners, and changed the construction of a full liner system with no wooden stringers to a conventional wood stringer system. The built into the hull fresh water tank and waste tanks were deleted and standard tankage was used. I am also fairly sure but not certain that the air duct manifold and vent system built into the ceiling panel was also deleted.

Also gone with the liners was the unique sound of that side waterline exhaust system replaced with a conventional exhaust system.

I believe most of what has been stated to be accurate, now comes the guessing part.

Based on the ratio of mid-cabin based boats available for sale I believe that Trojan sold more of these than the first generation models based on the original 10 Meter Express Cruiser and the convertible version of the same. (The 10.8 convertible was a great choice as it afforded the same approx rear deck size of the Express Cruiser combined with the usability of the convertible.)

But back to the Mid-Cabin.

Clearly the changes to all of the construction and build lowered the production costs. The appeal of the layout and the gains of the mid cabin I believe had some significant effect on sales. Did Trojan raise, lower or maintain the selling price on these units? Did they lower the price and is that one of the reasons that there seems to be so many more mid cabins out there?

Deleting those unique and in some cases revolutionary design construction features exclusive to the first series of producion boats probably had little effect on sales as despite these substantial changes, the famous Delta-Conic hull was retained

I think I'll repost this as a new thread and see what response it gets.

Waddyathink about this evolution idea?

RWS

[tsawyer]

What I could use (given all the wasted space) is some more storage for stuff (rafts, noodles, masks, fins, etc).

I wish there were some in deck storage for all that wet stuff.

[RWS]

We have a hypalon 10' dinghy with a hard high pressure air floor ( it planes easily) This is rolled up in it's factory bag and kept between the starboard fwd seat and the gunnell (under the gunnell)

Air compressor lives under the wet bar

There is enough room in the lazarette for 3 milk crates for: (1) power cords and wye adapters 2) water hoses (3) dinghy stuff, lins, numbers, center seat, dinghy anchor, etc.

Other items in the lazarette include

three big fenders & lines

9.9 hp Mercury 2 stroke outboard (weighs 64 lbs)

aft anchor and ground tackle.

Plus there is still room in the center of the lazaratte as this stuff is kept on the sides of the opening.

The St Crox mini crane is stored in the ares under the helm seat (bottom)

all manner of spares (belts, hoses fresh water pump, etc. are stored in the storage compartments under the floor in the cabin (salon)

Numerous fishing tackle boxes with fasterers, wire, switches, light bulbs, canvas hardware, wire terminal ends, heat shrink tubing, electric drill & bits and much assorted stuff is in the slifing drawer cabinet under the port seat.

Spray lubricants, spotlight, sun tan & bug stuff, flares & assorted other liquid stuff is in plastic containers under the orther sliding door drawers under the helm seat.

This vessel allows lots of storage space. We can even load up several collapsable Coleman water jugs kept in he engine room to be used as needed when on the hook.

My friends Roger Devore and Garth Hinkel gave me lots of basic ideas when I was on thier 11 meter and saw how they managed thier space. They were instrumental in getting me into this whole Trojam thing.

GREAT STUFF !

RWS

[alexander38]

great read RWS ..after see an Aft Cabin meter boat I can see why the mid cabin was a good seller , the split bunk and head between them and a deck that isn't flat in the Aft-Cabin was a turn off, But the two Mid-Cabins I've been on I liked, the whole split bunk thing is a real turn off (that's how we ended up with our boat, couldn't find a newer tri-cabin with mid engines)

[tsawyer]

You have an express and I have a midcabin. My engines are farther aft.

The room in mine is in the way back and I can't get to it as the engines and genset leave little room to access the space.

[alexander38]

You have an express and I have a midcabin. My engines are farther aft.

The room in mine is in the way back and I can't get to it as the engines and genset leave little room to access the space.

would it be possible to install a deck hatch above the space to gain better use ?

[koviak]

I have a 1989 mid-cabin with all the machinery ie:generator and twin big blocks. I can still get my 200lb. body into the rear hatch past the genset ( not easy )to service the back end. As for storage, I do not have a refrig. in the wet bar so I store fenders and shore power cords here. Aft lazerette holds crate with oil and fluids. Side panel in the galley above cooktop I put on hinges to acess for storage. Seat bases at dinette have panels that lift out. After emptying out boat for winter storage I am amazed at all the stuff I took out.

[BobCT]

My mid cabin does have the full teak around the transom which I guess isn't all that common. BUT, I think I have the only one in world w/o a genset which means no wiring or controls at the panel.

Since I don't have the genset, I keep my roll up dinghy stored right in the center of the boat and I strap my 2hp Honda to the stringer near the strut mount on the Port side. I can fit a lot and somehow I keep finding hidden gems and expanding the storage possibilities.

I really love the layout of the mid cabin but the vaccuum bagging was/is a nice plus on the Express models.


Bob

[RWS]

<SNIP>

But back to the Mid-Cabin.

Clearly the changes to all of the construction and build lowered the production costs. The appeal of the layout and the gains of the mid cabin I believe had some significant effect on sales. Did Trojan raise, lower or maintain the selling price on these units? Did they lower the price and is that one of the reasons that there seems to be so many more mid cabins out there?

Deleting those unique and in some cases revolutionary design construction features exclusive to the first series of producion boats probably had little effect on sales as despite these substantial changes, the famous Delta-Conic hull was retained

I think I'll repost this as a new thread and see what response it gets.

Waddyathink about this evolution idea?

RWS

Any comments of the evolution of the aft cabin to the mid cabin to take advantage of the tremendous unused available space?

What about the changes from liner /no wooden stringers to production boat engineering while keeping the same hull??

Could it have been cost savings that had little effect on sales?

Why drop all of those features?

RWS

[gardnersf]

One correction. On my 1986 Midcabin I still have the In Hull water tankage. Waste tank was switched to standard tankage.

Access to the in hull tankage is pretty poor (One of the few poor access points) I am amazed at all the hatches installed to allow for running wires and hoses. Really well thought out.


I think the mid cabin has exceptional interor storage at the expense of cockpit storage. The cabinets on either side fo the mid cabin are enormous. We can stay a week easily on the boat at anchor and have enough food, water, etc. stowage for water toys and the like is difficult.