Help please with manifold-any pics

[dfg4240]

I am lost on this as both manifolds on the starboard engine (chrysler 44) were cracked and

Barretts ordered me two manifolds but they are OSCO and not Barr which is what was on there. The barr manifold had the water coming in on the front top of the manifold and had an adapter at the end of the manifold connecting to the lower elbow.

Barretts said the osco does not need an adapter-and the bolts were rounded on the old manifold adapter so I cut them off. dismantled everything.

I ran a compression test on the engine just to make sure I did not have a bad head gasket because there was water in the oil and both manifolds were cracked.
the readings were 130-130 135 135 for the port side of the engine and
130-125-135-160 for the starboard side and I did see some water coming from the bolt hole on the back part of the exhaust hole as I ran the starter for a compression test Barretts said that is probably water that was getting into the cylinder through the exhaust and that is also why the compression is high on that cylinder-still some water in there.
Any way I mounted the port side OSCO manifold and changed over the hose fittings from the Barr manifold but when I went to bolt the elbow to the manifold ther is no way the top bolt on the elbow against the manifold can be tightened-there is no room whatsoever.The water tube on the manifold sits right above it and almost touches it. another thing is I opened the other box with the other manifold and there was a paper in it that said it must be filled from the lower bottom opening which is just the opposite from barr and to plug the top hole and I was wondering if anybody has osco manifolds on their 440's.do you have the adapter at the end of the manfold and then the elbow.I'm ready to order the barr manifolds if I can find them and sell these on ebay. Another thing is the adapter that I took off had studs that passed through holes in the elbow.
What I have now is holes in the end of the manifold and holes in the elbow and trying to line up the holes and put a bolt that just makes it into the recess of the elbow almost takes an act of god doing it single handed but I did get the first two in and noticed the top bolt can not be tightened.
So if anyone can tell me if the water input in in the underside of the osco manifold at the bottom and if they have an adapter at the end-Please let me know as I can do nothing else but order two barr manifolds and adapters if I want to get the job done.
dfg4240

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[Commissionpoint]

So probably a cooked exhaust valve in there, or at least one thats $hit bound anyhow. Not a teriffic sign by any measure, and probably best to get that head off and see whats with it. Water in cylinders is BAD with two capital B's. The worst of it being bent connecting rods and a twisted crank (bye bye engine) if you get too much in there under load.

I think you are trying to show one set of compression numbers for a single engine. Please correct me if I am wrong. Otherwise I am reading your numbers as if you have twin 4 cyls. I KNOW this not to be the case, and am ASSUMING you have 4 numbers (listed port and stbd) for a SINGLE ENGINE. To avoid confuson, espescially when speaking with a tech, you will want to change your descriptive terminology to: Stbd. engine (or Port engine), outboard cylinders xxx-xxx-xxx-xxx, inboard cylinders xxx-xxx-xxx-xxx. Conversly, you could say 'left bank', 'right bank', but I prefer 'outboard' and 'inboard', or possibly, 'centerline' as an alternative for 'inboard', but lets not confuse things anymore than I have already.

Either way, when you list Port xxx-xxx-xxx-xxx, and Stbd. xxx-xxx-xxx-xxx, I think of twin inline 4's. I bet more than one other person who reads here everyday thinks a similar way too.

I just want you to get the best help possible.

[prowlersfish]

I ran a compression test on the engine just to make sure I did not have a bad head gasket because there was water in the oil and both manifolds were cracked.
the readings were 130-130 135 135 for the port side of the engine and
130-125-135-160 for the starboard side and I did see some water coming

.

CP
Seems clear to me he is talking about 1 engine Port would be left and starboard would right we are talking boats here . Not sure how your getting a cooked valve out of those readings getting some water in that clynder can cause a higher reading .

But The issue is where the water came from . I would get the water out of that clynder ASAP and some oil in there . A leak down test could tell you in you have leak to the cooling in that clynder . But we know he had a cracked manafold and that very well maybe all of it .(or not)

As far as water coming out the bolt hole I have seen it before in mopars , no worrys .

[mikeandanne]

As far as water coming out the bolt hole I have seen it before in mopars , no worrys .[/quote]

Absolutely right--- mopar 440 exhaust bolts/ studs hit the head water jackets and need sealer when re- installing--normal--- Mike

[dfg4240]

Prowlerfish
Thanks-you made me feel better as I was thinking and hoping that the cracked manifolds were the only problem but I had to make sure with a compression test.
I am going to call http://www.marinemanifold.com/osco/osco24.aspx
today as this diagram they have here shows the tube that I am supposed to use ,I guess.
It looks like a smaller fitting but the lower exhaust elbow looks the same-just little recesses where the bolts go.
The gasket kit for reconnecting the lower exhaust elbow looks different than mine and it has studs that come with it.
I didn't get studs with my gasket kit. Hopefully if I ever get it back together I can start the engine and bring it up to temp and then drain that oil out of it. I will be able to go tomorrow and work on it for a few hrs but then I will have to wait until the weekend to get back to her-thats what takes so long to do the job-a few hrs two days a week is not enough.
dfg4240

[dfg4240]

ok- I finally got it.
First I got the one bolt in and drew it up and by the third bolt the elbow was just about flush with the manifold.
Then I slipped the top bolt in and with just the finger tips tried to turn it in a thread or so and then used needle nose
pliers to turn it a fraction of a turn and after that I could just get a box wrench to barely grab it at an angle and turn it and after it was half way in I could put the box wrench on it and draw all of them up tight.
Only thing is the elbow had to be pulled out 2 inches of that exhaust tubing and now it is clamped at the neck of the upper exhaust elbow with two clamps.
the one closest to the elbow has an opening in the exhaust collar.
Tomorrow when I go there and do the other side and fire it up I will know if it leaks but I would rather buy the exhaust tubing and have it the right length.
thanks for all the help
dfg4240

[dfg4240]

Hi again
The left side is done and I connected the lower exhaust elbow to the right side manifold which is much easier off of the engine.
changed over the endcaps and saw that there was a jury rig on the water inlet elbow-two clamps on it.
there is a small hole in it. The old part number is E7158M-Stivers ordered one for me from sierra but it looks the same but is not.
Mine has a 3/4" thread with a 3/4" wide nipple-looks like a right angled elbow.
the one he received has a 3/4" thread but a 1" wide ribbed push on nipple so I would not be able to get the hose on. They had a different number for the part on the manifold.They must have changed it sometime and it is one of those ribbed nipples where mine is just a slip on.
Trying to get the manifold on by myself is a real pain. trying to set it up so I can hold the gasket against the manifold and push a bolt through the manifold and gasket into the block. tried several times. one end is suspended with a rope but lifting and holding the manifold with one hand with the elbow attached is a little difficult.the bolt keep slipping out and falling to the floor. What a Pain.
I am taking the day off from it and trying to find another water inlet elbow.
dfg4240

[dfg4240]

HoorAY FOR ME-I got the right side on.
This is a tough job for one guy but I got it-I went home after that and tomorrow I will replace the O rings on the lower exhaust elbow and reconnect.
Hopefully everything will go well and fire up the engine and bring it to temp and then drain all the oil out of it and refill with fresh oil.
thanks for any help or advice-I took pics today before installing the right side manifold.-they always look nice when they are new.
dfg4240

[gardnersf]

Probably a little late, but the method I have used for my manifolds is to get a couple of studs that match the thread pattern for the bolts and are long enough to extend mast the manifold.

Put two studs in the block, Put the gasket and manifold over the stud and put a nut on each stud to hold the manifold. Then put the rest of your bolts in to snug but not compressing gasket. Replace the studs with the appropriate bolts

[dfg4240]

Yeah a little late but thanks anyway.
did you do that on a 440 F36 ?
the right side manifold does not clear with studs in the block-at least not on my boat.it hits the sidewall. I suspended the manifold from a pole and put two 1/4 studs into the 3/8 holes in the manifold with the gasket attached to them and guided the manifold on with the two bolts that I inserted into the block then I wedged a 2x4 and another shim between the wall and the manifold to push the manifold up tight and then inserted the bolts. Also the third bolt down from the top has to be in the manifold before you try to mount the manifold or you will never get it in. You can start to get it in but the angle is to sharp and it will bind in the hole against the sidewall.
dfg4240

[gardnersf]

This was on a Trojan 10 meter mid cabin