"AND THE SURVEY SAYS"..."NO Tri-Cabin For me today"...:(

[Warren]

Hello again everyone. As I mentioned in my very first posts of the last couple of weeks, the Trojan tri-cabin I've been searching for all summer was scheduled for it's survey today. As mentioned, I have looked at, or inquired about "several" in and around Ontario, and northern New York over the past few months. When my wife and I first looked at this boat 2 weeks ago, we were very impressed both with the layout and the overall condition. It was after that initial visit, that I immediately searched out you guys and this forum. I figured I would have a zillion questions and what better place to search for or ask for answers, especially now that we had found the boat of our dreams, a mint 1984 tri-cabin. First owner-2 yrs, 2nd owner 15 yrs , 3rd owner 11yrs, and NOW hopefully soon to be ME!!!! It has spent it's entire life in a covered slip in central Ontario. The owner was quite decent, fastidious and appeared to be justifiably proud of his boat and and was only selling due to health issues.

He had his own survey on hand from last October, and yes, there were the usual minor issues that obviously would crop up on any boat almost 30 yrs old, but nothing that couldn't be overcome by someone like me....I'm not mechanic by any means, but I am a good "screw turner", so minor / medium mechanical issued to not scare me.

I deliberated long and hard over the last two weeks, reading the reply's to my posts, and reading the posts of others on here that have been in the same position as I am now. I was oh - so tempted to accept the sellers survey, and just get on with today's second visit which would have been sea trials...then just write the check and open the champagne!!!

Everything about the boat was perfect for us...the right layout, the right colors (my wife, not me saying this), the right equipment, the right past history, a respectable price, winter storage paid for, even the location (4 hour drive each way) was tolerable. We spent last night planning our trip next Spring to relocate the boat to our home port here in Ivy Lea. I couldn't sleep at night, wondering if I should/shouldn't get my OWN survey. The words of several of you that replied to me over the past 10 days or so, kept shouting to me in my sleep, "THE SURVEY LEANS TOWARD THE PARTY PAYING FOR IT!!!!!.....GET YOUR OWN SURVEY!!!!" . Common sense prevailed, and I did just that. MY survey was scheduled for this morning.

Well, today the bottom fell out!!!!

We arrived at the boat at 9:30am after a 4 hour drive. The local surveyor I hired arrived at the same time and began his two hour inspection. The owner was also there (at my request) because I wanted to make good use of my time by going over the various procedures on the boat, as well as going through the huge box of files and receipts that had accumulated over the boats history.

As expected, minor stuff cropped up here and there, but nothing that was a "deal breaker".
The port stringers responded to his hammer whack with a CRISP SHARP REPORT, and everything was going along fine until his hammer made that SICKENING DULL THUD when it hit the starboard inner stringer right under the engine mounts !!!!! ughhh!!!! My heart sank....and I think the surveyor kinda went "oh, $%#@" !!!! His next words said it all, "I think we have a serious issue here" . His experience: identified a "suspect" stringer that ran for several feet in the engine compartment. His solution: The engine would have to be lifted or removed to make the necessary repair....@ a $6k job in his estimation. The owner showed surprise, and of course I was seriously deflated, so much so, that I told my wife who had been sitting patiently on a nearby picnic table, that we will "probably be leaving shortly" ...What "no sea trial" she asked, I replied "nope, not today". I said "thank you to the owner", packed up the dog and my wife, and made the return 4 hour drive back home.

Summary:
"Ok", so it cost me 8 hours of driving, and "X" dollars for the survey, but I will sleep tonight even though I don't have a boat.
"Yes" , I know stringers can be fixed...do I want to have it done in a boat that had a "mint original interior"....what do you think that interior will look like after a job like this?

I'm crushed tonight...but wiser....at least I think I am ...the already filled out cheque is still in my pocket.
Warren

[aaronbocknek]

hey warren, wow what a story. i wonder what caused that stringer to rot out. i understand that trojan was never known for covering up limber holes, but i wonder how much water sat in that bilge for an extended period of time. makes me want to sound my stringers when i get to the boat tomorrow morning. they were sounded when i bought the boat, but, hey, i can always check again. did the survey continue or was it immediately stopped after the stringer thudded? having said that, if the cost to repair the stringer is indeed 6k, i'd ask for the purchase price to be knocked down 10k. that gives you some wiggle room, or, ask the current owner to complete the repair and again, drop the purchase price. if any surveyor is worth his salt, the boat will not sell unless this is addressed. well, maybe it will. who knows. as for the interior during the repair, i believe that the engine removal hatch on the cabin top can minimize the interior mess. any capable boat yard can see to it. it all comes down to what you want, what you are looking for, and, what you are willing to put up with to obtain the tri cabin you want. i looked at a lot of lemons out there before i settled on my tri cabin, and p-dogg must have viewed 10 before he found his. so, you're not alone in this. take heart. maybe the one you saw today could get a second chance. but, i'm glad, oh so glad, that you listened to us that said 'by all means, get your own surveyor.' i'm curious. going over the current owners survey, did it mention any stringer issues? if not, then i'd like to bring it to his attention.
keep us posted.
aaron

[aaronbocknek]

hey warren, wow what a story. i wonder what caused that stringer to rot out. i understand that trojan was never known for covering up limber holes, but i wonder how much water sat in that bilge for an extended period of time. makes me want to sound my stringers when i get to the boat tomorrow morning. they were sounded when i bought the boat, but, hey, i can always check again. did the survey continue or was it immediately stopped after the stringer thudded? having said that, if the cost to repair the stringer is indeed 6k, i'd ask for the purchase price to be knocked down 10k. that gives you some wiggle room, or, ask the current owner to complete the repair and again, drop the purchase price. if any surveyor is worth his salt, the boat will not sell unless this is addressed. well, maybe it will. who knows. as for the interior during the repair, i believe that the engine removal hatch on the cabin top can minimize the interior mess. any capable boat yard can see to it. it all comes down to what you want, what you are looking for, and, what you are willing to put up with to obtain the tri cabin you want. i looked at a lot of lemons out there before i settled on my tri cabin, and p-dogg must have viewed 10 before he found his. so, you're not alone in this. take heart. maybe the one you saw today could get a second chance. but, i'm glad, oh so glad, that you listened to us that said 'by all means, get your own surveyor.' i'm curious. going over the current owners survey, did it mention any stringer issues? if not, then i'd like to bring it to his attention.
keep us posted.
aaron

[P-Dogg]

Something to keep in mind as you shop for a tricab -- the newest ones are basically 30 years old. Every boat that you look at will have problems. The trick is deciding what problem you can live with in order to get the boat that comes along with it. And remember this: it costs money to shop for boats. I spent maybe $5K SHOPPING for my boat, and used a week of vacation -- plus many weekends. I don't know what is average. As Aaron said, I looked at 10 before I bought the one that I did. I probably paid a premium price because it was a premium new-to-market boat. Having looked at so many, I knew it for the jewel that it was as soon as I saw it. Nevertheless, it was not perfect, but there were no show-stoppers.

Consider carefully what Aaron said. If everything else suits you, you may be better off taking his advice and negotiating the price downward -- in excess of what you are told it will cost to repair it. You will find it hard to resist saying "While it's accessible, I might as well..." How are the backing plates on the underwater exhaust? See any black ooze coming from underneath of the plywood? And on the seacocks? I bet the boating season is about to come to get real slow in your neck of the woods soon. Now might be a good time to buy something and have it worked on over the winter. While the pros do the stringer, you could re-bed deck hardware, or get caught up on other recurring maintenance. Write the contract FOB destination, i.e., you take ownership when it gets to your place, so the work gets done where you can nose around often. Like residents in nursing homes, when the laborers know you could stop by at any time to visit their charge, they'll do a better job. And if you choose this route, do not let the existing owner repair it before delivery -- you want the workers beholden to you, not him.

So you didn't finish the survey? Didn't you have to pay the surveyor the whole fee? I ask because if you're going to foot the entire bill, you should get the complete story even if you don't think you'll need it. Plus, if you don't buy the boat, you could ask the seller to split the cost of the survey, or even provide the seller with the survey gratis. Any good salesman will insist in the contract that you must show them the condition portion of the survey anyway -- their not going to take you on your word that it needs repairs. If you go the second route, don't expect so much as a thank you from an angry seller (You know who you are! Hey I noticed that your boat is still for sale 18 months later. How 'bout them storage fees and insurance, Mr. two-boat owner?)

That said, there are plenty of boats to choose from, and hey -- I enjoyed flying all over east of the Mississippi looking at boats when I was shopping. Regardless of what anyone tells you, a boat purchase is an emotional issue for all involved. Apply all of the logic that you can, then go with your gut feeling. You will get all of the support that you need here.

[RWS]

Glad you got the survey but sorry about the result.

Better to know now.

Survey more than paid for itself.

This is yet another good example of WHY 30 year old boats are difficult to sell.

Its not unusual to see some advertised for YEARS !

I'd make him an offer that's $10 - 12,000 less and see if he bites.

You have NOTHING to lose if he does.

RWS

[Hardeight]

Warren, sorry about the survey. I know that feeling well. I paid for 3 before I found my mid cabin. Even after a survey and a good sea trial $%^T happens. I had to have one of the transmissions rebuilt after having her for a week. My best advise is to keep looking and don't settle. There is one out there for you and you will know it when you find her.

[todd brinkerhoff]

Old boats always need work, no matter how "pristine" they are. If you are in the market for a perfect old boat, you may be waiting a lifetime. If you want close to perfect, buy new, but even new boats will have issues. A survey serves as two things; 1. Determine most of the issues (even the best surveyor will miss stuff) and 2. Determine which issues you are willing to dive into, and which ones are not worth the time and costs (much of which is based on your time, your personal ability to repair the issues, and your financial tolerance)

All boats are repairable. Take a look at Yorklyn's thread. He's restored everything, and the boat looks mint. The problem is that he has probably spent more money than he will get for the boat, but a replacement for that boat would be $200,000 to 300,000. He will never recoup what he spent of course, and that doesn't take into account his time.

All of this is based on what you are looking to get into. My boat is 22 years old, and even after a pretty decent survey, I've had to completely reglass my radar arch, replace my hotwater tank, replace my freshwater pump, change out my freshwater lines, rebuild my carberators, reseal every inch of caulking, rebuild my anchor windlass, replace my t-top canvas, rebuild my vacu-flush, rewire all my bilge pumps, replace a fuel sender, replace some gauges, and I'm sure there is another 6 things I forgot. This is all within the first 2 years after a good survey.

Its all based on your tolerance. I like working on my boat, and find it relaxing after a stressful day. Others look at me and call my crazy for taking on this old of a boat. Meanwhile, they have their brand new $250,000 boat in the marina for repairs every other week. Of course its covered under warranty...lol.