hyjacked REPOWER UPDATE- FILTERS

gettaway · Post by **gettaway** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:22 pm

Ok,
we recieved this bulletin from Ford Motorcraft regarding our Super Duty Fords, while this is ford specific and of course promotes the use of Motorcraft components, it looks as of Racor is manufacturing the fuel filters for the Powerstroke, notice the Wix filter element, Wix is making NAPA?

I use napa as well, but this make you think a bit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0Qxec77 ... re=related

prowlersfish · Post by **prowlersfish** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:38 pm

On Dodge trucks with the Cummins diesels there was a Issue some years back with the oil filters coming a part and damaging the engines
the mopar bulletin sad only 3 filter where OK to use after testing the Mopar filter ( OEM of course ) Fleet guard ( cummins OEM) and AC all others the check failed the tests . That fact they listed AC shows it was not about using their filters .

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:57 pm

I chose a different direction when it comes to oil filtration. I use a Moroso Racing Oil Filter for a few different reasons. The first reason is that I added a filter relocation kit to my engine which involved removing the factory oil filter bypass. Doing this meant that I would have to use a filter with an integrated bypass which the Moroso filter has. The second reason is that this filter also has an anti bleed back valve which allowed me to relocate the filter without the oil bleeding out of the filter and back to the pan when the engine shuts off.

The third reason, and the most compelling for me, is the way it does the job that an oil filter has to do. Oil coming from the pump can take two different routs to get to your bearing surfaces. One is thru the filter media and the second is thru the bypass. Most oil filters remove particles as small as 10 microns and by doing this create back pressure at the filter which forces a percentage of oil to go thru the bypass and to your bearings without being filtered. This is not a bad thing since this is the way the oil system is designed to work, filtered or not your bearings are getting oil. The Moroso filter however only filters down to 27 microns which means less resistance to flow, lower back pressure and a higher percentage of oil coming from the pump getting filtered.

In a passenger car or truck exposed to daily driving on dusty roads, a 10 micron filter is the way to go. For a marine engine revving 3500 rpm for hours at a time down in the bilge of a boat, the Moroso Racing Filter is my choice.

PS I would choose this filter with or without the filter relocation kit.

Below is a picture of the filter

The filter is located under the left manifold riser

I also use one of these filters on the hot rod. You can see it located under the radiator.

gettaway · Post by **gettaway** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:08 pm

Thanks for the information what a great looking and engine and engine roomm!

aaronbocknek · Post by **aaronbocknek** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:47 am

HOLY CRAP CANADIAN PAUL, YOUR ENGINE AND BILGE ARE AMAZING!!! you can eat of either one!!! pee green w/ envy buddy. and yes, i meant to use all caps. wow. just wow. found a moroso dealer about 5 miles from my house, so i'll have to hit them up once i dig out from the sleet this morning. what a cluster.
tri cabin aaron, baltimore, md

prowlersfish · Post by **prowlersfish** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:46 am

Nice set up Paul it looks like show boat .

Paul , I will have disagree with the use of the high micron racing filter . Your just not filtering the oil like you should . I don"t thing this would be a issue on a low hour and dust free environment like a pleasure boat . How often do you see a marine engine wear out ? most issues are from time and lack out use .

With that said there is something to be said about oil flow on marine engines the see high rpm use . Thats why you see a duel oil filter set up on many marine engines . its to increase flow and yet still give good filtering . Many of these engines are rated up aroung 5000 rpm .

As far as a filter bypass that comes in to play when the filter gets dirty so it will still flow oil .

On some engines this bypass is built into the engines in other cases its in the filter or sometimes both .

The important thing is to use a filter the meets OEM specs , Unless you have fully redesign the system like Paul has .

rossjo · Post by **rossjo** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:41 am

The Cummins Fleetguard Combo Lube Filter (Venturi/Stratapore) I'm
now using in my 7.3L diesel Excursion has 2 filtration systems built in:

1 with low restriction to keep the engine fed using their Stratapore technology,

The 2nd stacked disc filtration system passes about 5-10% of the
oil flow through 5-micron filtration to "scrub" it of dust and other
small particles.

These are designed for Extended Service Intervals (ESI) on large
over-the-road trucks, even safely going 75,000miles in Severe Duty Australian Road Trans.

If you're interested in reading more:
http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/p ... T36043.pdf
http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/p ... B10046.pdf

I totally disagree with 27micron filtration. Why would you do that?
The only thing that ever wears your cylinder walls or main bearings are contaminants. You're striving for long life, not a 3 hour, 6,000RPM race motor. Check with Mercury or Crusader - they will not recommend that setup.

I took out a Fram, and here is the comparison:

prowlersfish · Post by **prowlersfish** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:29 am

I also am a fan of the fleet gard filters ( OEM for Cummins)

gettaway · Post by **gettaway** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:03 pm

Here is my thought on this filter subject.

Like others on here, I have used just about every filter out there for one engine or another, however, on a larger point, I think I would buy an engine driven boat, car, truck hot rod etc from any of you guys that have posted on this subject. regardless of your preference for brand of filter.

If you have put this much thought and passion in to the maintenance and upkeep of your engines and the products that you use to do so, I highly doubt that any of you would let an oil and filter change go to the point of failure.

That being said, any new product can and does fail, (think recalls) but I would guess that any of us with an opinion on this subject and takes the time tp participate in this forum probably takes pretty good care of their beloved Trojans.

Frahm- blows and fries and engine call attorney= Frahm+ deep pockets=new motor

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:06 pm

Well I guess Rossjo and I can agree to disagree on the higher micron filtration. The Fleetguard filters that you are talking about look like an excellent set up with the 2 stage micron capability however as stated, these are for oil filtration on heavy duty diesel applications with extended service intervals. What I'm talking about is oil filtration on a typical gas engine in the average pleasure boat.

As Paul (prowlersfifh) stated,

prowlersfish wrote: I will have disagree with the use of the high micron racing filter . Your just not filtering the oil like you should . I don"t thing this would be a issue on a low hour and dust free environment like a pleasure boat . How often do you see a marine engine wear out ? most issues are from time and lack out use .

" I don"t thing this would be a issue on a low hour and dust free environment like a pleasure boat" is exactly why this type of filtration (27 micron) works for me. Although I use my boat often, it's still a pleasure boat and the oil gets changed long before it becomes a contaminated mess.

The simple truth of the matter is that at elevated RPMs, a typical oil filter on a gas engine cannot keep up to required flow (dirty or clean) which in turn causes oil to bypass the filter. This also stands true with the 27 micron filter however the volume of oil that bypasses the filter is reduced. Also, I don't want to confuse any one reading this who might not have a full understanding of the "bypass system". The bypass system ensures that oil is getting to your bearing surfaces filtered or not. And since this oil travels in a continuous circuit thru the engine then back to the pan, it always ends up going thru the filter somewhere along the way.

As Paul (prowlersfish) also stated, there's another way to achieve better filtration. The oil filter relocation kits, such as the one that I have installed, are also available in a dual filter configuration. This would double the filter volume capacity and possibly keep the bypass shut. Its a great add on if you have the space.

Any way, my choice in oil filters works well for me. The proof is in the engine.

I hope our discussion on filtration has helped enlighten others on the subject.

And don't get me started on oil.

rossjo · Post by **rossjo** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:56 pm

I'll let you know after I pass 500,000 miles.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:02 pm

aaronbocknek wrote:HOLY CRAP CANADIAN PAUL, YOUR ENGINE AND BILGE ARE AMAZING!!! you can eat of either one!!! pee green w/ envy buddy. and yes, i meant to use all caps. wow. just wow. found a moroso dealer about 5 miles from my house, so i'll have to hit them up once i dig out from the sleet this morning. what a cluster.
tri cabin aaron, baltimore, md

Thanks for the complement Aaron. When we bought the boat, the bilge was a little on the black and nasty looking side. Then after removing the engine and everything else from the bilge, my wife and I scraped and cleaned for days to get the crud out of there. (she did't like me very much during those days) Then a fresh coat of paint, new engine and a bunch of other stuff and we have what you see in the picture.

prowlersfish · Post by **prowlersfish** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:55 pm

More of my take on this . ( you have been warned )
Marine gas engines should go thousands of hours with a OEM spec filters , Race engines are not long lived , So I really question a 27 micron filter . My Cummins only uses 1 filter and oil flow is not a issue .

Paul How many hour do you have on yours ?

I will say it a again how often do you see a worn out marine engine ?( gas) they mostly run OEM spec filters . 99% die from Lack Of Use , marine age ( rust )and lack of maintenance .

Yes duel filters are used to improve flow on some marine gas engines . If a 27 micron filter would be a good improvement , you think thats what the marine engine would use . but they go with the more costly duel filter set up . Just my opinion

Now about oil ......

Mike Kulp · Post by **Mike Kulp** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:00 am

I love these discussions with every body giving there opinion on these topics, it is a good learning tool for every body, with that said I have been selling Wix gold filters at my shop for 15 years with great results ( Gold series, there is three grades ), except on the power stroke 6.0 & 6.4 we use the ford filters. I have to agrea with prowlerfish on this my 454 crusaders have around 1500 hours on them with no problems, I have heard people mention dirty oil and bypassing the filter but I think if you change your oil once a year most people do not put enough hours on ther engines to even come close to breaking down todays oils. When I change my oil at 70 hours it still looks pretty clean. But any thing that you do as far as filtering your oil more certainly can not hurt. I recommend quality filters, oil and change them once a year.

aaronbocknek · Post by **aaronbocknek** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:24 am

Mike Kulp wrote:I love these discussions with every body giving there opinion on these topics, it is a good learning tool for every body, with that said I have been selling Wix gold filters at my shop for 15 years with great results ( Gold series, there is three grades ), except on the power stroke 6.0 & 6.4 we use the ford filters. I have to agrea with prowlerfish on this my 454 crusaders have around 1500 hours on them with no problems, I have heard people mention dirty oil and bypassing the filter but I think if you change your oil once a year most people do not put enough hours on ther engines to even come close to breaking down todays oils. When I change my oil at 70 hours it still looks pretty clean. But any thing that you do as far as filtering your oil more certainly can not hurt. I recommend quality filters, oil and change them once a year.

hey mike, great to see you on here. was waiting for your response. anyway, i sent you PM. it's vital that i speak w/ you. call me if you can. home... 410 661 8685/ cell.... 410 227 8133 URGENT.